rewirable fuses

[dcelectrical]

evening all - I have a question for some of the more learned members, I am currently trying to make a landlord understand that her rewirable fuseboard isn't up to date, so I know that in 1991 the 16th was launched meaning it wasn't to regs but I was wondering if there was any requirements in the 15th for MCB or if it just stopped being compliant in the 90's. doesn't really matter as she missed the change in regs by 25 years anyhow but it just made me wonder.
Thanks in advance for all the comments!:wink_smile:

 

[Leesparkykent]

evening all - I have a question for some of the more learned members, I am currently trying to make a landlord understand that her rewirable fuseboard isn't up to date, so I know that in 1991 the 16th was launched meaning it wasn't to regs but I was wondering if there was any requirements in the 15th for MCB or if it just stopped being compliant in the 90's. doesn't really matter as she missed the change in regs by 25 years anyhow but it just made me wonder.
Thanks in advance for all the comments!:wink_smile:

Is it unsafe then?

 

[telectrix]

notice OP is in london. no doubt LFB will advise him that it's a damn sight safer than all these modern MCB equipped boards that catch fire.

 

[dcelectrical]

The installation is potentially unsafe, sink is not earthed 2 extension leads from a double socket under the sink old MK light switches, property is looked after by B.Gas and landlord maintains its fine and I am advising an EICR so I can point out the potential dangers and recommendations to upgrade. I just like to make it clear that the non compliance isn't a resultant in the change of regs last Tuesday but years of 'it all works fine'

 

[Taylortwocities]

The Wiring Regulations are not retrospective. If they were, every house in the country would have to be changed/modified every time a new version of the regs came out!

As above, if it met the regs at the time it was installed, then nothing needs to happen to it.

HOWEVER, if you were, perhaps, asked to add a new circuit to that board, you would have to do that work to meet the current wiring regulations. That may require the fuseboard to be changed/modified.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There wasn't a requirement in the 15th for an MCB, just as there isn't a requirement in the 17th.

 

[Leesparkykent]

The installation is potentially unsafe, sink is not earthed 2 extension leads from a double socket under the sink old MK light switches, property is looked after by B.Gas and landlord maintains its fine and I am advising an EICR so I can point out the potential dangers and recommendations to upgrade. I just like to make it clear that the non compliance isn't a resultant in the change of regs last Tuesday but years of 'it all works fine'

What non compliance anyway?

 

[dcelectrical]

The Wiring Regulations are not retrospective. If they were, every house in the country would have to be changed/modified every time a new version of the regs came out!

As above, if it met the regs at the time it was installed, then nothing needs to happen to it.

HOWEVER, if you were, perhaps, asked to add a new circuit to that board, you would have to do that work to meet the current wiring regulations. That may require the fuseboard to be changed/modified.

so as long as it meets the regs it was installed under and nothing new has been added you would call it satisfactory when you inspected it?

 

[telectrix]

and what makes you think the sink is extraneous?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Are the MK switches, the old ones with a lifetime guarantee, or the newer ones with only a 25 year guarantee?

 

[Taylortwocities]

The installation is potentially unsafe, sink is not earthed 2 extension leads from a double socket under the sink old MK light switches, property is looked after by B.Gas and landlord maintains its fine and I am advising an EICR so I can point out the potential dangers and recommendations to upgrade. I just like to make it clear that the non compliance isn't a resultant in the change of regs last Tuesday but years of 'it all works fine'

Oh dear. Do you really know enough to carry out an EICR??

Why would you "earth" a sink? A decade or so ago one had to cross bond the H&C pipes in a kitchen, but that was removed several editions ago.

What is wrong with the extension leads? the load is limited to 13A in the plug. Not the best way of distributing a load, I would agree, but they are not part of the fixed wiring.
Some advice should be given if they were powering a washing machine and tumble dryer perhaps.

Note that since Amendment 1, BS7671:2008 non-compliances with the requirements of the current edition of BS7671, that do not give rise to danger or NEED improvement, do not require reporting in an EICR.

Reading this may help your understanding. http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100404922/Best-Practice-Guide-4-Issue-4.pdf

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Note that since Amendment 1, BS7671:2008 non-compliances with the requirements of the current edition of BS7671, that do not give rise to danger or NEED improvement, do not require reporting in an EICR.

When exactly were EICRs introduced?

 

[Andy78]

The presence of BS3036 fuses is not a reason for any sort of code on an EICR. There may be other codable issues with an installation of this age related to the DB that I can think of though.

 

[dcelectrical]

Oh dear. Do you really know enough to carry out an EICR??

Why would you "earth" a sink? A decade or so ago one had to cross bond the H&C pipes in a kitchen, but that was removed several editions ago.

What is wrong with the extension leads? the load is limited to 13A in the plug. Not the best way of distributing a load, I would agree, but they are not part of the fixed wiring.
Some advice should be given if they were powering a washing machine and tumble dryer perhaps.

Note that since Amendment 1, BS7671:2008 non-compliances with the requirements of the current edition of BS7671, that do not give rise to danger or NEED improvement, do not require reporting in an EICR.

Reading this may help your understanding. http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100404922/Best-Practice-Guide-4-Issue-4.pdf

having been out to properties where sinks have potential and giving a little discharge every time the tenant washes up I like to test their potential especially when I am called into a tenant complaining of minor shocks from the cooker.

extension leads under the sink are perfectly fine, especially in managed properties where 3 or 4 tenants live and will regularly put every appliance on in the morning when getting ready for work.

with regard to carrying out inspections I just write down whatever and recommend the landlord get a quote from some new English people to do a budget rewire and charge £400 quid for the privilege

 

[netblindpaul]

If I can buy one, I can still legitimately install a "re-wirable" board tomorrow into an install as BS3036 fuses are still current under BS7671, as long as my circuit design meets the other requirements of BS7671:2008+A3:2011, & I bet you I can design an install that will meet these requirements using a BS3036 re-wirable board.

 

[atm84]

Just because it has rewirable fuses, it doesn't mean that it needs updating. Like netblindpaul says above the circuit breakers just need to be considered in the design. Albeit when I come across such a board, I would recommend an upgrade as there are newer, circuit breakers available that should trip in a shorter period and ease of maintenance would be another reason to upgrade.

 

[Risteard]

BS7671:2008+A3:2011

2015 even!

 

[davesparks]

having been out to properties where sinks have potential and giving a little discharge every time the tenant washes up I like to test their potential especially when I am called into a tenant complaining of minor shocks from the cooker.

extension leads under the sink are perfectly fine, especially in managed properties where 3 or 4 tenants live and will regularly put every appliance on in the morning when getting ready for work.

with regard to carrying out inspections I just write down whatever and recommend the landlord get a quote from some new English people to do a budget rewire and charge £400 quid for the privilege

If there is a potential between the sink and electrical earth then there is a fault in the installation. Bonding the sink will not fix the fault, only disguise it whilst causing a current to flow through the bonding conductor due to the potential difference and causing the sink to get warm due to the energy dissipated by the flow of current.

 

[netblindpaul]

2015 even!

Yep ok, fair do, I was working last night on some pre A2 stuff, so I had that stuck in my head, back on A3 today!

I still think I could design an install to comply with A3 and use 3036's.

 

[andyb]

I still think I could design an install to comply with A3 and use 3036's.

You definitely can, be expensive though.