RIP - Winston Churchill

[Octopus]

A man who's dad was a Lord, Chancellor of the exchequor, and a member of the Duke of Marlboroughs (off top of my head so may have the wrong one) family.

Without dismissing Churchills wartime achievements, there is not a chance in the world he would have been able to get to the position of Prime Minister without his aristocractic upbringing. And as others have said, outside wartime a true tory supporting the rich and smashing the poor at every opportunity.

Was he doing that when he was a Liberal?

 

[andyelectric]

Yes, Churchill was a Liberal at one point. But that was when they indulged in "laissez faire" liberalism akin to modern tory thinking. The Liberal reforms of the early 1900's were in coalition with the labour party and I wonder out of Lib/Lab who were committed to the reforms. And indeed Churchill later switched to the Tories as Labour became, more powerful and the Liberals were sidelined.

 

[amckay]

Winston Churchill's decisions won us the second world war. No doubt about it.
Now whether all the decisions he made were right or wrong, is another matter.

Many people simply do not know that Winston Churchill IS responsible for more wartime deaths than Adolf Hitler's concentration camps. In a bid to help the people of Britain, he diverted dozens upon dozens of merchant ships from India and sending them to UK. These ships were carrying foodstuffs and in aiding england to feed came the cost of dire malnourishment and starvation causing the death India around 6 million citizens in just 3years -that is more indians dead than Jews in the same timescale.

When I look at the state of the uk now, both financially and socially, I think I'd rather had lost the war and maybe things would be different now.

But Winston did what was best for his country, and he won. Kudos for that.

I also admire Adolf Hitler's actions in political term's but what he did to the Jews was unforgivable.

RIP Winston Churchill

 

[trev]

Winston Churchill's decisions + some catastrophic decisions by the German high command + massive economic and military assistance from the US won us the second world war.

Some other facts added to your original statement for added realism. Remember the "Give us the tools and we will do the job" speech?

 

[amckay]

Some other facts added to your original statement for added realism. Remember the "Give us the tools and we will do the job" speech?

Yes that's true

 

[trev]

I can see that my thread had been ruined!

The thing is mate, if I started a thread saying RIP Nye Bevan you would find something to find fault with him about and it would probably turn into something like this has.
I probably wouldn't complain about it though.

 

[Octopus]

The thing is mate, if I started a thread saying RIP Nye Bevan you would find something to find fault with him about and it would probably turn into something like this has.
I probably wouldn't complain about it though.

A lot of people would say Nye who?

 

[Adam W]

The thing is mate, if I started a thread saying RIP Nye Bevan you would find something to find fault with him about and it would probably turn into something like this has.
I probably wouldn't complain about it though.

I doubt it, it doesn't seem to happen that way around. When Thatcher died the left were jumping up and down, clapping their hands together and singing 'ding dong the witch is dead', but when Bob Crow died he was shown nothing but respect.

 

[Guest77]

I doubt it, it doesn't seem to happen that way around. When Thatcher died the left were jumping up and down, clapping their hands together and singing 'ding dong the witch is dead', but when Bob Crow died he was shown nothing but respect.

Not just the left, most of the country, except the far right and the rich.

 

[Engineer54]

Not just the left, most of the country, except the far right and the rich.

Now i wonder why that was??

 

[trev]

I doubt it, it doesn't seem to happen that way around. When Thatcher died the left were jumping up and down, clapping their hands together and singing 'ding dong the witch is dead', but when Bob Crow died he was shown nothing but respect.

Not strictly true though is it Adam, I certainly wasn't jumping up and down or clapping my hands. For all her faults she was still someone's mother and her children, no matter how disfunctional they may be, will still have felt the same pain that we all do when we lose a parent. I didn't lose sight of that and for all I didn't celebrate it, I certainly did not mourn her passing.
Bob Crow did not cast the same shadow over the political landscape that Thatcher did and perhaps that was the reason that the 2 deaths were handled differently by the media. I found both extremes of the way her death was handled to be very distasteful. On one hand you had a few people celebrating which was blown out of all proportion while on the other there was the fawning, sycophantic, arse licking and beatification of her by the likes of the Daily Fail. The crocodile tears of the tory party made me want to vomit

 

[Adam W]

Now i wonder why that was??

Because they had morality issues.

 

[Des 56]

I completely concur with Trev,he outlined the reaction to Mrs Ts death to a tee
I have never had a good word to say about the woman as a politician because its as a politician that I and most people knew her
My judgement on that was she was an absolute disaster,but that is a personal opinion on her as the politician

As a fellow human being,I understood the sorrow that was felt by her family and friends at the loss of someone very dear to them
The Maggie bag celebration kit that was sold and bought was a disgrace and shame on people who acted in such a way

When someone posts up a thread on a forum in 50 years or so time reminding the members of the anniversary of her death
lets hope it is respectful but at the same time truthful

Remember her achievement's and also acknowledge her failures and/or shortcomings
The perception of either of them will obviously depend on each persons personal memory of her times

 

[Engineer54]

Because they had morality issues.

Obviously the ''Right'' ones!!

 

[Adam W]

Obviously the ''Right'' ones!!

A moderate pun if nothing else.

 

[newtothis]

All in vain - cos Merkel is calling the shots in Europe big-time, and we've been invaded by hostiles seeking to establish their own state within our state.

 

[Jonspark]

A lot of people would say Nye who?

was he a olympic swimmer?
Welcome to Nye Bevan Pool

 

[Des 56]

A reminder of some of Churchills less than noble ideas

Winston was a supporter of eugenics – the practice of improving the overall genetic quality of mankind – and while helping create the Mental Deficiency Act 1913, he drafted in that the feeble-minded should be sterilised instead of confined in institutions. This was changed before the Act was eventually passed into law.

As a young politician, Churchill was staunchly against votes for women

The disastrous Gallipoli landings on the Dardanelles during the First World War was the brainchild of Churchill, then First Lord of the Admiralty. The failed naval operation left some 34,000 British soldiers dead – while another 78,500 were wounded and a further 7,500 were captured or left missing.

. As soon as the war ended, Churchill began to plan for another attack. Branded Operation Unthinkable – the plan was ordered by Churchill and developed by the British Armed Forces. They predicted the Third World War could begin on July 1st 1945 with a sudden attack against the allied Soviet troops. However, the plan was quickly rejected by the British Chiefs of Staff Committee for being militarily unfeasible.

The above may help to give a more rounded insight into the man
However,even given his many deficiencies and privileges he was well respected by those at the time and is still well respected by many today

350 million watched his funeral,even the US audience for the British Second World War politician was larger than that for President Kennedy’s funeral, broadcast some 15 months earlier

 

[Adam W]

A reminder of some of Churchills less than noble ideas

Winston was a supporter of eugenics – the practice of improving the overall genetic quality of mankind – and while helping create the Mental Deficiency Act 1913, he drafted in that the feeble-minded should be sterilised instead of confined in institutions. This was changed before the Act was eventually passed into law.

As a young politician, Churchill was staunchly against votes for women

The disastrous Gallipoli landings on the Dardanelles during the First World War was the brainchild of Churchill, then First Lord of the Admiralty. The failed naval operation left some 34,000 British soldiers dead – while another 78,500 were wounded and a further 7,500 were captured or left missing.

. As soon as the war ended, Churchill began to plan for another attack. Branded Operation Unthinkable – the plan was ordered by Churchill and developed by the British Armed Forces. They predicted the Third World War could begin on July 1st 1945 with a sudden attack against the allied Soviet troops. However, the plan was quickly rejected by the British Chiefs of Staff Committee for being militarily unfeasible.

The above may help to give a more rounded insight into the man
However,even given his many deficiencies and privileges he was well respected by those at the time and is still well respected by many today

350 million watched his funeral,even the US audience for the British Second World War politician was larger than that for President Kennedy’s funeral, broadcast some 15 months earlier

Yes, he lead us to victory in WW2.

 

[Adam W]

Can't sleep. Not specifically because of this, more likely the can of Red Bull I had earlier.

Des you will remember 'alarm man'.
I didn't agree with his political views but we had mutual respect for the way we argued each others perspectives and I feel his decision not to continue contributing to the forum was a loss to everyone, the same as we both missed 'Millwall Ken' when he decided to break from the forum.

I'm not saying either are on the same level as Churchill, but all deserve recognition here for their contributions.