RyeField Boards EICR

Upton Sparks · Apr 4, 2017

Gent
If any of you would have a minute to give your 2 pence on this I would appreciate it.

I have a Rye field board supplying 10 Meters in a old house split in to Flats, The Tail for all of these Flats are installed with VIR cable, this is also from the Rye field board to the Meter , from the meter to local Isolators, and from these to the Distribution Board within the Flat, the Installation is probable 1950's and the Installation method is trunking within the Electrical cupboard and then conduits to the Flats DB's floating for the last half meter to the Consumer unit. The Ryefield board has BS 3036 rewire-able 60amp Fuses which bring to my attention the PFC Issue I now have.

Now I'm going to codes these as C2, and recommend replacing the VIR with double insulated PVC cables between , between the Ryefield and Isolators, then an SWA to each Flat.

Even consider recommendation to the replace the Ryefield board, as the PFC is 2.9 KVA single Phase and therefore 5.8KVA Three Phase

But the question here is Who responsibility will it be to replace these Cables for the Ryefield board? I would normally say the DNO, but every time I've done a new supply and worked with the DNO's they have always refused to install the cable from a Ryefield board to the Meter, I Guess this is due to the Risk assessment and they wouldn't allow any of there Engineers to work (on or near live electrical works).

Also I would does any one Know why Ryefield boards never have an isolator?

Any thought would be welcome the Technical help line for NAPIT was of the option to excluded the Ryefield board but I don't think thats Rights.

many thanks

Kirk

telectrix · Apr 4, 2017

question is.... are these meters the supplier's meters or landlord's meters? if the are suppliers meters, then it's up to DNO to maintain anything before the meters.

westward10 · Apr 4, 2017

Ryefields are normally, not always, the DNOs means of distribution in multi dwelling buildings. Just seen your London location and it is common down in the smoke.
Rare to see 3036 fuses in one.

davesparks · Apr 4, 2017

That sounds like an electricity board installation at that kind of age, not something you should be interfering with. Did you have to cut any seals?

Upton Sparks · Apr 4, 2017

The Meters are the DNO's meters.
Shocking they have actual change a few over to smart meters and not even battered an eye to the fact they are still using a VIR cable supply cable.

Yes this is a London based Question, I don't think the DNO will want to take responsibility for it, given my past experience with them. But thank you for your option.
I think the Rareness of these fuses is due the to Age of the installation, I can only guestimate 1950's but it could be the 40's maybe earlier...

Upton Sparks · Apr 4, 2017

No the Ryefied board had no Seals, or locks, it was freely accessible, no Paper work, nothing at all,
Agreed it is normal convention to consider anything from a meter back to the service head would be the DNO's responsibility,

But my concern is, this is within the electrical cupboard, even if it is the DNO's it still need to conform to BS 7671, I'm going to comment on it on the EICR. I don't believe it is a safe installation and well over due an upgrade,

My Gut feeling is after 6 months of painfully calling and waiting the DNO will tell the landlord to get quotation for Electrical contract to do all the Hard work with a Big call out from him to reconnect the Meters up at the end .

westward10 · Apr 4, 2017

Not uncommon for a Ryefield in London to have no seals some are a right state. Have they created TN-C-S within it as many only have a single PEN bar. It is almost certainly the DNOs unit.

Rosco · Apr 4, 2017

What does the dno cut out look like is it big old green metal Lucy head? I have come across this a couple of times also in London sw area and the dno take no responsibility after the head isolator or no isolator. From what you have said I'm not surprised it hasn't been reported by people changing metres as I've met a few (not all) who don't bat an eyelid at the cable they only check the size. I would also recommend it be updated.

Upton Sparks · Apr 5, 2017

Its not quite like a normal Lucy Service head as I know and have seen them with the Fuse directly above it, but it is an old metal 200 AMP service head with a swing door on it, That could be just an age thing here. so its a TN-S system, no seal or tag either on the service head, they've had about four meter's change over to smart meter's over the last couple of years.. so nice job boy's in inspecting your own installation!.
The Ryefield board is about half meter away from the service head, connect by some 3" metal trunking and single conductors, so pretty standard in its arrangement. And yes it is a west London.. Well done Rosco

I guess the question really should be, Should I Include the Ryefield board as Part of the EICR and from it as a Distribution Board to the Sub Main, I think regardless of the owner ship it is still a distributions board warts and all and covered by BS7671,

My Remit is to Inspected the Landlords supply and sub mains to the Flats, so technically and morally it falls to me.... plus I see some work in of course.

westward10 · Apr 5, 2017

I personally wouldn't test circuits from it because you are unsure of ownership but definitely record its condition and the "assumed" means of circuit protection it contains.

David Prosser · Apr 5, 2017

I'm not familiar with this kit so any chance of some pictures.

Rosco · Apr 5, 2017

Upton Sparks said:
Its not quite like a normal Lucy Service head as I know and have seen them with the Fuse directly above it, but it is an old metal 200 AMP service head with a swing door on it, That could be just an age thing here. so its a TN-S system, no seal or tag either on the service head, they've had about four meter's change over to smart meter's over the last couple of years.. so nice job boy's in inspecting your own installation!.
The Ryefield board is about half meter away from the service head, connect by some 3" metal trunking and single conductors, so pretty standard in its arrangement. And yes it is a west London.. Well done Rosco

I guess the question really should be, Should I Include the Ryefield board as Part of the EICR and from it as a Distribution Board to the Sub Main, I think regardless of the owner ship it is still a distributions board warts and all and covered by BS7671,

My Remit is to Inspected the Landlords supply and sub mains to the Flats, so technically and morally it falls to me.... plus I see some work in of course.

The swing door on the head sounds about right just be aware that I've had the dno guys say they won't work on those heads anymore for connecting tails to isolators etc they replace the head which can take 8-10 weeks to organise, if you get the follow up work that is.

7029 dave · Apr 6, 2017

Worked on loads of them, the DNO are not always responsible. Had a situation in Northampton council block of flats,400amp in take, multi way feeding meters in trunking, cut along story short, the council inherit the ryefield boards. Especially if subbed to each floor, which would have been ran in by contractors properly.?

Upton Sparks · Apr 7, 2017

Thank for the Advice and opinions chaps.
what I'm doing is listing the Ryefield board on my EICR as the Main DB after service head, with 13 circuits ( Sub main feeding the Flats and one Landlord supply) protected by the 3036 fuse... commenting on Warts and All regardless of ownership.

I/ the client will have to contact UK Power networks, they got to look at there Earthing connection to the Main Sub main Cable, not up to standard ... and they can assess the Ryefield at the same time... which I'm pretty sure they will disown.

Toneyz · Apr 12, 2017

What is the condition of the VR cable? what is it like where it has been disturbed when meters have been replaced.

Upton Sparks · Apr 17, 2017

westward10 · Apr 17, 2017

Could be wrong but that looks like a Bill Talisman board and not a Ryfield?

Upton Sparks · Apr 17, 2017

Just a small treat for all you sparks out there.. I know it looks good! see how many treats you can spot!
The condition of the VIR Cables, visual they look good in parts some fraying in others but the cables which I can test I will not. Mainly as I do not want the hassle form messing around with them, Ive removed loads form old commercial installation in the past and Ive had some mixed experiences with them, some are OK but others are brittle and can have there insulation break and fall away. And if I'm not mistaken that had a serviceable life expectancy of 25 years and was removed from service in the late 1950's, also given its an imperial cable with no Cable details to reference in the current BS7671 I can only recommend they are upgraded to modern cables. If the DNO takes responsible for the VIR cables then for the customer the problem will go away........ possible....

Did any one see the 16mm twin and earth with a 30 amp chock block? .... Quality!

Specialist · Apr 18, 2017

Hey don't knock it, at least they attempted to connect the earth up.

Upton Sparks · Apr 18, 2017

Hoover or Vacuum cleaner...
I'm not sure I cant remember seeing a name on the board, but in essence it's what you would expect a Ryefield board to be (A Simple Panel Board ) , possible made by some one else but its quite old as well so possible an older design as well.

yeah I know we should be grateful that the earth has been connected... after they lashed the cable in in such a hurry, its a bonus they went to the bother of using a chock block.. it really was a pure sight of beauty!