Discuss Score 1 to the scams, 0 to the trade :( in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

scam's lobbyists have spoken. It seems like the brown envelopes:envelope: have been flying around. We will just have to sit back and wait for the SMOKE-FIRE & DEATHS then we can say TOLD YOU Soooooo :reddevil:
 
Anyone else had the letter from Elecsa, about the change in the notification system, the increase of the cost to notifiy and the mandatory "guarantee"?
 
Second from last page at the top says a levy on us is proposed to pay for enforcement. Bloody great that is!

Damian, when you attended the committee was anything about reg fees brought up? Our costs should be universal across the schemes and in line with gas safe fees. I.e. Cheaper!
 
Second from last page at the top says a levy on us is proposed to pay for enforcement. Bloody great that is!

Damian, when you attended the committee was anything about reg fees brought up? Our costs should be universal across the schemes and in line with gas safe fees. I.e. Cheaper!

Or the schemes could decide to relax the "annual" inspection requirement for members to every 2 years and hey presto they have funds available.

It would be so easy to supply copies of PL ins, calibration etc by email - THEY need to move with the times.
 
Or the schemes could decide to relax the "annual" inspection requirement for members to every 2 years and hey presto they have funds available.

It would be so easy to supply copies of PL ins, calibration etc by email - THEY need to move with the times.

Thats too easy though and doesn't return the same sorts of profit for these greedy freeloaders, it's always about the money always has been and always will and seen as the government kicked this shambles off when they introduced part p I doubt they will ever admit to getting it so badly wrong

nothings ever going to change without a lot of noise from ourside, public awareness does need raised but they need to know when they get an "insert scheme here" electrician they are playing Russian roulette with their and their families safety as they could very well have a clueless chancer messing with the electrics instead of a properly educated and fully qualified spark, instead of this bull**** campaign the schemes are trying to push, if enough of us stood our ground told the schemes where to shove their fees and fought for proper change something would have to happen, why the hell should we have to pay these clowns hundreds of pounds a year to go about our jobs none of what they do is rocket science and they are killing this trade so why should we allow them to carry on
 
Whilst the formal government response is both predictable (I have a letter to me from the Secretary of State saying as much, dated from last year!) and disappointing, what IS of interest is that broadly speaking the actual committee heard what we were saying and agreed with us. Personally, I think the most effective way of moving this forward is to ask the Charities Commission to investigate the status and setup of the whole ESF (ESC) / NICEIC / ECA family. Or, just simply vote with your feet and take your registration away from the big three to someone else (I'm with BSI, for example) and just starve them for cash. Two years and they'll all be fuscia'd - end of problem.
 
a) a levy on those registered with a competent persons scheme to be used to provide a fund to enhance enforcement; the funding arrangements for enforcement could be managed on behalf of local authorities, possibly through an agency such as LABC



that to me means they are going to charge us to be registered with local council as well!
 
a) a levy on those registered with a competent persons scheme to be used to provide a fund to enhance enforcement; the funding arrangements for enforcement could be managed on behalf of local authorities, possibly through an agency such as LABC



that to me means they are going to charge us to be registered with local council as well!

What it means is, that they are now trying to reinvent the wheel!!


How can you enhance something that isn't there?? ...,Nope this levy they are talking about is for the enforcement that's never been there from day one. The Schemes have never been in the slightest bit interested in playing a part in the policing of Part P. Income is and always has been there major concern and anything that is remotely seen as an outgoing expense is quickly kicked into touch. The LABC's are almost as bad, they are generally governed by departmental accountants that don't want to spend money on risky court cases for little to no return, even on successful prosecutions... Now how much of this proposed levy will actually get used to police/enforce Part P if left to the LABC's, is another matter, ....the chances are it will just go into the general running costs of the local LABC, with maybe one or two token actions taken against infringements....

Only one way to get out of all this mess, and that is with the advent of a National Registration of Qualified Electricians!! At a stroke it will, A) Nullify any need for competent persons schemes, B) Remove the 17 day /Electrical Trainee's from the industry once and for all. C) Have the teeth to police the registration system both legally in a court of law (prosecutions) and internally (removal of registration privileges) etc, etc etc!!

Will any of you fight for your industry wide registration, nope, most will just be sitting back moaning, and things will just go from bad to worse, as more and more money is taken off you for patch-ups, as more and more cracks appear in the increasingly unworkable system you have now!!! !!
 
I think the governments response was also predictable and to be expected, and although against the grain on here, in my opinion it was the correct one, in that common sense prevails.

Whilst I admire people that stand up for what they believe in, by no means did the committee panel of expert witnesses represent the whole spectrum of views and opinions within the trade. Indeed they did not represent my views or the views of electricians I talk to. And the “we” so readily bandied about in threads on this subject, in that an NVQ3, JIB One world order approach relates to the majority view, is in my opinion far from the mark. But hey, what do I know! :blush5:


But I do agree with Rockingit’s statement that, Personally, I think the most effective way of moving this forward is to ask the Charities Commission to investigate the status and setup of the whole ESF (ESC) / NICEIC / ECA family. Or, just simply vote with your feet and take your registration away from the big three to someone else (I'm with BSI, for example) and just starve them for cash”

So if you’re all against the competent person scheme, then why are you all members (well most of you)?
If an NVQ3 was mandatory and JIB registration was mandatory, with a new world order style single license, I know what I would do….. and it wouldn’t be pay my fees and go back to primary school to learn how to - stand on a set of step ladders with a high vis jacket, hard hat, gloves, safety glasses, steel toe caps and a signed H&S statement taped to my chest and a risk assessment document and a camera stuffed up me jacksie…..no way, not in this lifetime or the next.:shocked:


I’m all for continued learning and education, up dating of qualifications etc, when they actually provide some form of learning or education. But if they are just another way to pointlessly take up my time and steal my hard earned money (and an extremely large amount of it) with very little in the form of education in return, well you’d be a fool not to resist, wouldn’t you?

I also like this …….Eng54Will any of you fight for your industry wide registration, nope, most will just be sitting back moaning, and things will just go from bad to worse, as more and more money is taken off you for patch-ups, as more and more cracks appear in the increasingly unworkable system you have now!!! !!
Its called apathy and to be frank (who is frank? What is frank? Weird word!) you get what you wish for, you get what you deserve usually……

To Eng54's post -
A) Agree, they are not necessary if people can be trusted to work to the Regs etc
B) Why, if they are a threat to a so called fully qualified electrician, then what about DIYers or milkmen or perhaps housewives reading the readers digest volume 6 “electricity for idiots”, should we get rid of these next?
C) For what? Non-compliance of non-statutory Regs? Non- compliance of building Regs? Safety issues? Or I suppose what your getting at or what would be the case in reality would be for non-payment to the said One world order single license franchise and a restriction of trade or protectionists dream.
 
Spoken by a true blue Electrical Trainee that can't produce a worthwhile/meaningful qualification to save his life!! Of course you don't want anything to change, you'd be up s*** creek without a paddle!!

And if you're not a 17 day whiz kid/Electrical Trainee, you really are one prize bloody fool !!
 
Spoken by a true blue Electrical Trainee that can't produce a worthwhile/meaningful qualification to save his life!! Of course you don't want anything to change, you'd be up s*** creek without a paddle!!

And if you're not a 17 day whiz kid/Electrical Trainee, you really are one prize bloody fool !!

Oh dear, you can assume as much as you like, cos we all know what assumptions make you.

So this is how you defend your point of view? By trying to shut down any debate using derogatory terms and personal insults? How about actually writing something with substance or are you so entrenched in your opinion that its hard to get to the point?:D
 
Having spent all my working life in private industry where the NIC and JIB were regarded with distain. I still believe national registration and classification are needed.

Only a government backed system could fulfil the role. That way everyone in the electrical field is covered and the dross is filtered out. With a classification system domestic electricians are kept out of the industrial sector and visa versa. I’ll openly admit I’m out of my depth with domestic work.

The industrial lads will kick off about it as the present system works well. If you’re not indentured and qualified we’re not employing you, end of.
 

Reply to Score 1 to the scams, 0 to the trade :( in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Similar Threads

Hi all. I am collecting evidence for a report on the current 'strategy' and trust given to the competent person schemes by the Communities and...
Replies
13
Views
2K
I have just read elsewhere that there is another Select Committee tomorrow on the Pt P thing. Link here: Minister quizzed on Government's...
Replies
1
Views
731
The above mentioned Committee are publishing their report. Any witness to the enquiry can apply for an advance copy of this report, under...
Replies
17
Views
2K
Just an update, I received this email from them just now: The Committee will hold a follow-up oral evidence session with the Minister, Stephen...
Replies
6
Views
2K
steve.b
S
So about two months ago now, I got a call from a customer asking if I could do a few bits, "of course" I said. She asked for a rough price to...
Replies
95
Views
10K

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

Electrical Forum

Welcome to the Electrical Forum at ElectriciansForums.net. The friendliest electrical forum online. General electrical questions and answers can be found in the electrical forum.
This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock