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Discuss Scottish legislation re heat smoke detectors in the Electrical Forum area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. DC-backfrom the past
    Offline

    DC-backfrom the past Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Hi can anyone assist.
    House renovatiob was completed by a builder etc ,
    Planning officer was in and stated that a heat detector was required in kitchen. This was to be interlinked with other smokes in the building .
    Place has been fully decorated. Lathe and plaster ceilings and walls. ( old building )

    No loop in live at lights in ceiling so that is where the problems start .

    Now aico do a heat detector radio link with a ten year tamper proof lithium battery .
    This is allowed as a tolerable standard by Scots government ( for rental properties) .

    Planning officer wants the heat detector hardwired. I've shown the new Scots gov legislation and he states it doesnt cover non rental properties.
    Hes stating
    The Building Standards legislation only allows radio communication between hard wired alarms (ref: 2.11.10 Radio Linked Systems).

    My understanding was the new legislation for smoke alarms was to bring domestic dwelling up to the same standard as rental properties

    Any thoughts or advice .. direction from anyone in Scotland that's had similair.

    Thanks
     
  2. Vortigern
    Offline

    Vortigern Regular EF Member

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    That link you gave does not work, at least for me. So is it looped at the switch? or is it a master JB with all the feeds and switches in?
     
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  3. ferg
    Offline

    ferg Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    N.W.Scotland
    I imagine it's acceptable as retrofit where no other reasonably practicable options are available but as a refurb it should have been done during the refurb so no excuses really.

    A bit like CO detection for retrofit, a lifetime battery unit is acceptable otherwise a hard wired alarm should be fitted.
     
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  4. polo1
    Offline

    polo1 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Business Name:
    GW Electrical & Security
    Give the Scot Gov Building Standards division in Edinburgh a call for clarification. As you say, the intention is to have all properties ( o/occupied and public rented) meet the same standard as presently required in the private rented sector.

    I always use Aico detectors, but not sure if their hard wired detector with a radio base will “talk” to their 10yr battery model with a radio base!
     
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  5. pirate
    Offline

    pirate Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    I have used Aico stuff many times and it gets the job done, especially the radio-linked models.
    In a couple of (rental) flats before the Scottish Govt changes, I used a hybrid system whereby the main smoke alarm in the hall was hardwired and it had a 10 year Li battery built in as well. The other smoke, in the living room and the heat, in the kitchen were both radio-linked ones with 10 year Li battery only. Yes, they should all have been hardwired but quite frankly these were small properties where if one alarm sounded you couldn't fail to hear it anywhere in the flat.
    Polo 1, yes, the mains wired smoke in the hall talks to the others fine. It is essential to check with Aico when designing to make sure you get the correct ones, I found it confusing at first, but they have always been very helpful when I have contacted them. Sorry I can't give the model numbers here, but I am away from home so can't check the details.
    Now, with the changes, I just use radio-linked everywhere.
    My understanding of the changes in Scotland were that following consultation, the govt accepted that:
    1. Technology had moved on rapidly, so battery powered 10 year radio-linked alarms were perfectly acceptable.
    2. The ease of installation and lack of damage to decor etc meant that landlords were more likely to fit these type rather than not at all.
    3. If, say, an extension is built on to a house, provision of alarm cover was very easy, just pair a new smoke with the existing ones.
    4. The idea was to make it easy for all rentals to acheive a good level of protection-a level that was seldom found in existing houses that were not rentals. ie that the PRS should have the best level of protection. You can't make an owner-occupier retrofit anything.

    In the OPs case, I presume it was Building Control rather than Planning who raised the issue. I think the answer might be in whether this renovation was more extensive than that...if all the walls and ceilings are lath and plaster, that suggests that it was not a complete gutting, but a serious tidy-up, and if BC were involved then maybe some walls taken down, new doorways and window openings?
    That begs the question of whether BC can actually have an input on the installation of smokes. On a new build,, yes...on a refurb? I don't know. My view would be to ask BC to reconsider, because the Govt are effectively sanctioning the new smokes for tenant protection, which is seen as very high priority, (just like you have to get an EICR on a rental, but not if you are selling) and if the BC rules haven't been changed to reflect this, then that is an oversight.
    Your BC man may agree, but say he can't deviate until the rules are changed.
    Daft idea...get the owner to rent it out for a week, with wireless radio-linked in place...then move in! He'd have to rent to a trusted friend who agreed to leave when asked!
     
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  6. pirate
    Offline

    pirate Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    And then BC will come down on him for renting out with no completion certificate in place!
     
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  7. DC-backfrom the past
    Offline

    DC-backfrom the past Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Glasgow
    hi apologies I was working the past two days and nights.

    to answer a few questions .
    it wasn't meant to be a link in the op.
    there is no live loop at the lights only at the switch.

    I have been told of this product from scolmore .
    think its similar to live feed at a fan then switched live . The sl works the light ,probably similar to a relay type connection.

    its building standards surveyor thats stating thats Scottish building standards don't allow (non tamper 10yr lithium) battery operated heat detectors . Although its allowed in rental properties.
    I always thought the rental properties were better protected by legislation.
     

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  8. static zap
    Offline

    static zap Regular EF Member

    Location:
    west midlands
    Ditto , maybe the equipment is treated with less respect.
    Hence becomes an inspected "Regularly replaced-consumable" .
    (if such a status officially exists.)
     
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