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Discuss Siemens Climatix Plc advice in the Industrial Electrician Talk area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. edexlab
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    edexlab Electrician's Arms

    Evening all I'm looking at learning the basics of PLC's as I've never worked with them other than wiring them up

    I've done some reading so I understand the basic ideas but that's all

    I've been given an unused Siemens Climatic controller POL 638.00 to play with by a friend,
    He recovered it from a damaged machine as he knew I was after a basic Plc but this is free so if I can I want to use it

    Apparently it has software on board but I'd need to use "Sapro" to do anything

    Can anyone tell me if this is correct and if there are any free alternatives

    I've been on Siemens website and am currently reading through a lot of downloads trying to figure out what's what but it's a bit of a maze as I'm unfamiliar with these products

    Any help would be appreciated
     
  2. Rob
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    Rob Control System Engineer Respected Member

    Location:
    USA/UK
    What are you trying to achieve with it?

    The climatic controllers are really only any good for controlling HVAC installations and it is not strictly a PLC.
     
  3. edexlab
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    edexlab Electrician's Arms

    Yes I do realise that its for HVAC controls it's just to have a play and get a feel for this kind of equipment,

    Rather than just go on a simulator
    I can wire input/ output devices just basic lamps, pots etc even a PID
    controller as if I get something wrong I have to fault find as you would on a real system which would be more beneficial than a simulator
     
  4. Rob
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    Rob Control System Engineer Respected Member

    Location:
    USA/UK
    • Like Like x 1
  5. edexlab
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    edexlab Electrician's Arms

    Thanks Rob it would definitely be something I'd look at later as I progress

    Before I do part with £400 obviously it makes sense to try and work with what I've got / can afford at the moment as I'm also doing a couple of other courses right now

    Can you tell me if it's possible / practical to get this unit working without buying expensive software?

    said in first few posts
     
  6. Rob
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    Rob Control System Engineer Respected Member

    Location:
    USA/UK
    Looks like you need SAPRO software to make edits, monitor and configure. There is a SCOPE lite software but that only allows monitoring and trending of previously set up units.

    Siemens also offer a programmable relay called the LOGO. The software is free and the relay will set you back between 60 - 120 quid. It's not a plc, and doesn't quite operate in the same way.

    However, it will give you a decent overview and understanding of how simple bit logic works in a PLC.
     
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  7. edexlab
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    edexlab Electrician's Arms

    Ok thanks Rob for your advice it's a shame though I was hoping this setup could be used etc
    but never mind I was talking to a colleague today about it as he has done a course he has a logo relay and I'll have a go with this first and then progress onto something else later,
     
  8. Rob
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    Rob Control System Engineer Respected Member

    Location:
    USA/UK
    If you need help just let me know.

    Logos are pretty powerful for a relay. However it's not quite the same as a PLC.

    It will give you the general idea though.

    Rockwell (Allen Bradly) offer something similar with a Micro 810. Similar cost to a LOGO, again the software is free (Called connected components workbench). It has a simulator built into the software too which is nice.

    CCW also allows the programming of some of Rockwells more basic HMIs and nearly all of their VSDs.

    Edit: CCW has issues now and then with the constant barrage of Microsoft updates in windows 10.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  9. Chris1234
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    Chris1234 Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Siemens and iDec give time limited trials on their software.
    iDec has a simulator and is very easy to use.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. edexlab
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    edexlab Electrician's Arms

    Thanks Chris I'll look into it
     
  11. Blaspark
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    Blaspark Regular EF Member

    Location:
    England
    Since you seem new to this topic I'd recommend you use free products. The standard for modern siemens plc's is iec 61131-3.

    You can use codesys, a free ide to learn. Siemens use different names for their languages than codesys but they are all following the standard.

    You can also by a raspberry Pi to test your program much more cheaply than a s7 1200 starter kit.

    If you enjoy programming then you should probably move on to using tia portal as much more jobs require it.

    I'll not say anything about cracked versions of tia portal. You'd be better getting hands on experience with real hardware from a starter kit.

    If you have android you can get an app called plc ladder simulator. It's very simple and can do binary /analogue logic. Learning how to make a state machine and making a basic app with the simulator is a worthwhile exercise.
     
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  12. edexlab
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    edexlab Electrician's Arms

    Thanks for the info Blaspark I have already downloaded the app this week to try out at lunch breaks etc
     
  13. Blaspark
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    Blaspark Regular EF Member

    Location:
    England
    Cool. Tia portal requires fairly powerful cpu and 16gb ram. Codesys is much lighter.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Rob
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    Rob Control System Engineer Respected Member

    Location:
    USA/UK
    Siemens follow 61131-3 in the way their software tools compile what is written into machine code.

    They aren't just using different names to Codesys, but are entirly different languages.

    SCL is the closest to Codesys they have, but it is not the same.
     
  15. Blaspark
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    Blaspark Regular EF Member

    Location:
    England
    An example from iec 61131-3 (old version I just downloaded) -
    "
    4.2.1 Power rails
    As shown in table 59, the LD network shall be delimited on the left by a vertical line known as the left
    power rail, and on the right by a vertical line known as the right power rail. The right power rail may be
    explicit or implied."

    It seems to define more than just how it's compiled.

    I'm aware there's a big issue in that not all vendors implement the standard in the same way and the extent of that issue is fairly undefined. They also might not be implementing it while saying they are.

    If siemens weren't following it fairly closely while claiming to, as they do, we'd know about people would moan like fu*k.
    SIOS - https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/document/50204938/how-do-you-program-the-plc-with-step-7-(tia-portal)-in-compliance-with-the-iec-61131-3-standard-?dti=0&lc=en-WW

    Best advice I've had is read the manual for the actual products you are using. Nobody can ask more.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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