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  1. liddley
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    liddley Regular EF Member

    Hi guys,
    Can anyone advise me on the legislation on installing mains battery backed up interlinked smoke alarm systems in domestic properties?
    I am working for a local authority who have us installing aico smoke, heat and co alarms in their properties. Whilst speaking with one of the aico reps the other week he seemed to be surprised that nobody here had any training to BS5839 to design and certificate these alarms after we have fitted them. The only cert the install gets is the electrical installation cert and nothing else. Is this the norm or should somebody be commissioning these alarms before they go into service. Any advice would be appreciated.
     
  2. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Given the tragedy of yesterday I would have hoped that you , or at least the foreman has the relevant training and experience of installation and certification.

    Do you use certificate software which includes the relevant certificates?

    That said installation of smoke alarms, as you know, isn't in BS 7671 so its not really our issue - its more like a grey area of the regs, and as they need lecky, we get asked to install them...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  3. liddley
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    liddley Regular EF Member

    This is the problem, like you say it seems to be a grey area in our industry. Everyone I speak to offers different advice. I keep getting told that anyone can specify smoke alarms as long as you are deemed a competent person. Surly the only way you can prove competance is to have a relevant qualification in fire detection and installation. Am I over thinking this??
     
  4. Andy78
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    Andy78 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    A smoke alarm system should be commissioned in line with the manufacturers info and BS5839 and a certificate produced to prove it. Aico can provide templates for this.

    Training for the design element of this job would not go amiss given the role you are in.
     
  5. Murdoch
    Offline

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    In reality a large number of us are capable of consulting the Aico website for advice - that said people still spec the wrong units for halls and landings, but I suspect that's about saving money.
     
  6. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    if you can install and test the smokes, then i'd deem you competent.
     
  7. Ian1981
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    Ian1981 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North east
    Domestic fire alarm installation sheets are available for compliance to the building regulations
     
  8. Ian1981
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    Ian1981 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North east
    Just an example of a test sheet IMG_2760.JPG
     
  9. liddley
    Offline

    liddley Regular EF Member

    So if God forbid somebody was injured or even worse lost their life as a result of fire in said property, would the fact that the alarms have been installed "electrically " correct to BS7671 and that I had filled out a commissioning form that I downloaded off the Internet be sufficiant to prove myself competent in a court of law?
     
  10. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    If you are going to design, install and commission these systems you need a copy of BS5839 Part 6. Although British Standards are not law, having it and demonstrating knowledge of it may prove due dilligence in a court of law.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  11. marc8
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    marc8 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Essex
    Business Name:
    MTS Electrical Ltd
    always give a certificate for smoke alarm installation, record type of system Ect, the only thing we record under testing is as per manufacturers instructions (press & hold ensure alarms work).
    From Aico site

    System Testing – Installation Certificate
    Once the system has been installed it should be tested and an installation certificate provided. Some certificates ask for a smoke/heat test to be performed on the alarms, however we do not recommend this as the results can be misleading and all Aico alarms are tested in smoke/heat/CO as part of the production process. We recommend testing using the test button on front of the alarms.

    If your certificate requires reference to smoke/heat testing, you can use the following wording as a ‘variation’ if you are testing using the test buttons:

    “A physical smoke/heat test has not been performed, having been substituted by following the testing recommendation contained within the Siting and Installation Instructions supplied by the manufacturer of the alarms installed.”
     
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    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  12. marc8
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    marc8 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Essex
    Business Name:
    MTS Electrical Ltd
    Very surprised that this is not getting picked up at time of annual scam membership, most years we have had an audit they ask to see smoke alarm certificate.
    on the certificate we issue it also includes the relevant electrical certificate number also.
     
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