Discuss smoke/heat co alarms in the Security Alarms, Door Entry and CCTV (Public) area at ElectriciansForums.net

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leep82

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Just wanted to get peoples opinion regarding a job ive been asked to do. The customer wants improved fire detection in there property, which is a 3 bed bungalow. There is no existing protection so my proposals are:-

. heat detector in kitchen
. smoke detector in lounge and corridor
. CO detector in lounge

The heat and smokes will be mains powered battery back up and interlinked. Supplied from a spare way in the DB. The smoke alarm covering the corridor is within 3 meters of all 3 bedrooms. The property has an entrance hall which i suppose would be classed as a circulation area although the client has asked if we can get away with not putting an alarm there as to look at the ceiling with the current lighting layout it would look terrible. The kitchen, lounge and corridor leading to the bedrooms are all accessible from the entrance hall. Reading other topics on similar subjects im thinking of using another spare way in the DB to supply the CO alarm in the lounge independantly . The lounge will then be covered by a smoke alarm and CO alarm but as there is a log burner installed i think this is necessary. What are your thoughts?
 
The circulation areas are really a must for protection, as they form the main escape route from any dwelling. The type of detection here is also important to prevent false alarm, ionization will be troublesome in this dwelling, due to log burner and potential of air born carbon particles. So optical will need to be used throughout. There is no point of using different db boards or mcb`s for detection, and would be better to use the same mcb for all detection, so as to indicate a mains failure to the co aswell as the detection. The be all in a private dwelling is the customer can have what he wishes, you can only advise, and state on the certification of any variation from part 6
 
The circulation areas are really a must for protection, as they form the main escape route from any dwelling. The type of detection here is also important to prevent false alarm, ionization will be troublesome in this dwelling, due to log burner and potential of air born carbon particles. So optical will need to be used throughout. There is no point of using different db boards or mcb`s for detection, and would be better to use the same mcb for all detection, so as to indicate a mains failure to the co aswell as the detection. The be all in a private dwelling is the customer can have what he wishes, you can only advise, and state on the certification of any variation from part 6
ive read on other threads that its best to keep CO detectors and smoke/heat detectors seperate so as to determine what exactly is causing an alarm to activate. Have i misunderstood somthing?
 
This will get a debate going but I would add the items to the lighting circuit so they can't be switched off and use Aico.
Aico is a no brainer, to me they're the best out there bar none. Try them to see if they offer a design service, some do as long as you buy their kit and as you're going to do that anyway :) you may as well.
 
I've done it numerous ways depending on the building set up and specification. Recent one was farm houses where we used mains of lighting circuit with radio linked bases for inter-linking, then a wireless control unit so you can silence the alarms and locate the alarm that went off first. We had heat detectors, co2 and smoke alarms, doesn't matter which one went off as you can easily locate the one that went off first. Also if there's a log burner then surely you'd want a heat detector in place of the smoke alarm.
 
ive read on other threads that its best to keep CO detectors and smoke/heat detectors seperate so as to determine what exactly is causing an alarm to activate. Have i misunderstood somthing?

No if a kit like Aico is used you can use the controller to determine the activated detector or co unit......or you can not link to co into the smokes, then you have 2 separate alarm tones for identification.....but when it comes to loosing mains power all detection will give a response, letting the customer know the is a problem.....by bs you can use the existing lighting circuit or separate mcb the choice is yours.
 
Concerning the log burner Andiwoo, I would sooner see a smoke detector in that room, than a heat, to give the best reaction to a possible risk. This would be were optical smokes would be used.
 
Aico is a no brainer, to me they're the best out there bar none. Try them to see if they offer a design service, some do as long as you buy their kit and as you're going to do that anyway :) you may as well.

Installed a shed load into a farmhouse on radio bases. Struggled to get them all to sync together. Phoned aico and they were amazing. Ive always used them since
 
Just been on the aico website think i might recommend this stuff. Going back to the lack of detection in the entrance hall i think tazz mentioned it would be advisable to cover the area as it is a possible escape route. Could it be argued that being a bungalow that there is an escape route from whatever room you are in?
 
Think Aicos success has been in good marketing and a good product....from and engineering point of view, to synronise more than 20 units without cross interference, is an achievement
 
Yeah better to know sooner rather than later that a logs rolled out and is torching your new IKEA rug. The previous company I worked for hated putting smoke alarms near fire places, we'd have a detector and co2 detector close to the fire place. A bit off topic but I also worked for a company and we were to use a mcb off a spare way for the inter linking alarm system but this was protected by an RCD which had communal sockets and lighting on it. I'm sure you're supposed to keep them off rcd protection especially if the rcd is protecting other circuits too, as the risk is far greater, but they barely blinked at me. What do you think?
 
Just been on the aico website think i might recommend this stuff. Going back to the lack of detection in the entrance hall i think tazz mentioned it would be advisable to cover the area as it is a possible escape route. Could it be argued that being a bungalow that there is an escape route from whatever room you are in?
Very true, but this is your main escape route, and in the event of a fire, a confused occupant will try and use the route first, so early warning to keep this route clear is our goal.
 
Yes but only using Hyfire wireless on advanced panels
Argus protocol if i remember rightly
 
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Yep thats the badger. Had to install and commission this hyfire wireless kit on an Advanced panel with Argos Vega protocol (done the course 1 day before it was supposed to be signed off!!) all sorts of problems now with it as they didnt put the expander and translator in a correct position so the Db levels to the detectors keep dropping out. Think our designer now wished he had thought of wiring it
 
The translator should be on the loop and expander is only to boost the range.....not to sure will have to check, but think sounder levels and tones are controlled by the advanced panel and can altered for each individual sounder base hence all need to be set by panel or will just stay at default of level 4
 
Indeed the translator is on the loop on outside of the building and across a car park to two other buildings. Had a survey by hyfire themselves. Db levels are used for the detectors plus call points (via laptop) if i remember correctly if it goes below 13/15/17db the expander kicks it to wake up.
Decent stuff as long as it says above 21db usually.
Neat way to add them onto a system too. Its different
 
sorry just understanding your post the db is not sound level but radio transmission level........well this is part and parcel of low powered radio equipment on 858mhz.....it is prone to variate with envioroment issues...the weather, a van blocking the transmitter, but the idea of the test is to make sure theses issues are covered...and this cant be covered in just one day
Would suggest this system requires another expander and retesting for transmission levels
 
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