sockets next to baptism pool

[riseoftheidiot]

hi everyone

i'm looking for some advice/reassurance on a argument i'm currently having with a designer and architect on a brand new church i'm working on, i'll try and be as brief as possible, in the worship room there's a large baptism pool (2m x 4m x 1m) with a small stage built around it about 300mm high, the pool will have a lid on when not in use. the designer( who was nominated by client)has placed several socket outlets around the pool on the front face of the stage about 1 metre from edge of pool. i saw the drawings for the first time the day i started the job and flagged this up straight away saying there's no way im installing sockets 1 metre from the edge of a large basin of water citing section 702 from bs 7671. its taken a while to get a response and i've finished wiring, its being plastered now i've wired the sockets to cover my backside just in case im wrong, the designer and architect are having none of it, the designer's response left me open mouthed, here it is word for word

hi mark
the sockets are not against regulation because there are no regulations regarding baptism pool's,the sockets will be rcbo protected and the client will not fill the pool to the top or be using the pool in a way that will cause splashing.

im standing my ground on this its common sense to me but i can see that client/ main contractor etc just think im being difficult, i suggested and have wired for a elv door contact on lid of pool with a contactor back in mains cupboard so once the lid is opened the power is cut to stage sockets but they have refused this stating they must have working sockets around pool whether lid is on or not.

surely you guys agree with me its against the regs and its dangerous but me and my lads are on our own with this way of thinking. any help/feedback would be very welcome


many thanks mark

 

[netblindpaul]

Grey area.

I can see both sides, as I look after a Baptist Chapel, in a goodwill manner.

I disagree with both of you to be honest!

However, I would NOT go down the road of an ELV contact & contactor.

 

[alanclifton]

fit ip65 rcbo sockets

 

[Marvo]

I think a lot of the issue will be whatever they plug in may have a flex long enough for it to end up in the pool.

What was their motivation for requesting sockets that close to a pool? They must have had something specific in mind.

 

[Andy78]

Can you get your scheme to back you up on this ?
Section 702 is clearly headed, swimming pools and other basins. It's a basin of water in my eyes....end of.
See if you can get the IET to give you written confirmation that it falls under 702.

 

[Octopus]

fit ip65 rcbo sockets

Whats one of those then?

 

[44ALLAN]

baptism/cremation and burial ..............3 for the price of 1

:boat:

 

[Sparkysoldman]

baptism/cremation and burial ..............3 for the price of 1

:boat:

brilliant !!!

 

[riseoftheidiot]

that's what i think also andy its a pool end of story, its an evangelical church allan at the last site meeting i was tempted to ask the client if there planning to all get in and chuck a toaster in and see who gets 'chosen' to cross over but the sockets are for a heater which has a plug top and is then submerged into water and removed when water reaches tempurature, also to the side of stage there is a i/o unit for audio equipment for the church band so sockets for musical equipment. i have my annual nic inspection on thursday so will definetly be discussing with him, its intersting looks like there's a bit of mixed opinion

thanks mark

 

[uksparks]

'God' only knows what the answer is! Ha ha

 

[Adam W]

This argument that Baptismal pools aren't covered under the regs is irrelevant IMO - you don't make something safer by giving it a different name, and given the potential risk I don't like this argument that "they won't overfill the pool" or "there won't be any splashing around" - clearly that's the intention, but very few people electrocute themselves intentionally.
RCD/RCBO protection is a no-brainer.
You could try finding out what they want the sockets for, and either reduce the need for them by suggesting an alternative option, or hardwiring it into flex outlets with flexes that don't reach as far as the water. The way I see it that's the idea behind the 'sockets 3m from the edge of the bath' reg, which seems worth considering in this scenario.
I don't like the idea of cutting the supply to the sockets if the lid isn't down either, but I do like the idea of IP65 equipment wherever possible.

Again, the IET forum may be a good port of call for advice on this one.

 

[Guest55]

bs7671 does not bow to religeous or designers whims , sockets must be 3mtrs from the edge of a basin where persons may be immersed.

rcd or not i'd fail it faster than you can blink and i'm sure the church's insurers risk assessment would agree.

 

[richy3333]

Surely it's a bath/basin? Only difference is if you fart in that one people will see you

 

[richy3333]

bs7671 does not bow to religeous or designers whims , sockets must be 3mtrs from the edge of a basin where persons may be immersed.

rcd or not i'd fail it faster than you can blink and i'm sure the church's insurers risk assessment would agree.

The churches insurers probably have a clause in the policy to do with "Act of God" (not that he/she exists and thus can act in any event)

 

[netblindpaul]

The churches insurers probably have a clause in the policy to do with "Act of God" (not that he/she exists and thus can act in any event)

Can you actually prove by using the current laws of the known Universe that God does or does not exist?...

 

[markc123]

Can you actually prove by using the current laws of the known Universe that God does or does not exist?...

I once pulled a 9/10 bird (yes once) when i was 18 much to the dismay and anger of my friends.

Conclusion, god must exist because she was a godess and i can still picture it now.

Note: history from computer being erased before the other half finds this and i have a vocal range greater than a 10year old girl.

 

[44ALLAN]

'God' only knows what the answer is! Ha ha

I think he's washed his hands on that one...................not in that pool though:thinking2:

 

[Guest55]

you wouldnt need to prove god exists lol , the installation designer will get the full brunt of any legal action following an incident.

which leads to the question , why the hell do you needs sockets 1 mtr from a baptism pool ?
no-ones gonna be recharging their ipad during little jonnys christening lol.

bad design defended badly by the designer.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Well its one big basin for sure. I would be onto the "experts" for back up. In this case get a written statement from NIC or Napit etc after providing the drawing of what is proposed.

 

[44ALLAN]

Conclusion, god must exist because she was a godess and i can still picture it now.

You can picture 'it' now...............or her:smilielol5: