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Discuss Sorry to mention stables again but... in the Electrical Forum area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. Percyprod
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    Percyprod Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Cumbria
    Some of you may remember a discussion I had on this forum some time ago regarding my wiring of a stable. The general opinion was that they would burn down, soon after the horses and anyone within a 10 mile radius was electrocuted. Now so far none of this has happened. Now my point was that as the part p didn't apply to stables, and as the regs aren't a legal requirement I could wire them myself, all be it to the relavent regs requirements re installation and testing. Now if it was a shop or factory I assume the Electricity at Work Regs would apply. The stables are purely for personal use, not commercial. Then the other day I had a thought. When I applied for the electricity supply I was told it had to have a proper address, so I rang local council, who said no problem, it will take 10 minutes, and so it did! Only problem was I then got a council tax bill, back dated 3 years! Plus it was rated as a commercial building. When I pointed out that it wasn't commercial, they said there were only 2 rates, domestic or commercial. As it happens I get 100% rate relief, so don't pay anything, but here's the point, as it is rated as a commercial premises, should the EWR now apply? Just interested what others think. Don't really care, just interested.
     
  2. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Guess it would if your wiring burnt down the building or electrocuted anyone within a 10 miles radius :)
     
  3. Percyprod
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    Percyprod Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Cumbria
    Don't see why burning the building down would matter.
     
  4. JOURNEYMAN
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    JOURNEYMAN Regular EF Member

    Location:
    EPSOM
    Are your insurers happy to provide cover as it is and if so is it a domestic policy or commercial?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Midwest
    Offline

    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    H&S might start snooping around. Along with the owners insurance company (if they have one).
     
  6. Andy78
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    Andy78 Respected Member

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    Asking about this now is a bit like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

    What a load of horse sh*t.
    You have demonstrated many times you are not interested in what others think, and if you don't care why should anyone else ?
     
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  7. richy3333
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    richy3333 Forum Mentor

    I’d say EWR apply to you in so far as you did your own wiring. Just my 2 cents but I think in the event of an incident the HSE or Environmental Health would use the Regs as a ‘minimum standard’ to,bash you with. Just my opinion though based on experience.

    Did you not need planning and an EIC to get the building signed off?

    As a matter of interest what earthing system and RCD setup did you ustilise?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. snowhead
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    snowhead Respected Member

    Location:
    Mildlands
    The EWR would not apply in this case providing there is no-one Employed at the stables as it would not be a workplace.
    Employed would apply to someone who is Self employed and in the business of looking after horses for others and therefore making (or loosing) money at the stables.
     
  9. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Employed in kind or reimbursed financially?
     
  10. davesparks
    Online

    davesparks Forum Mentor

    Location:
    guildford
    In terms of the wiring regulations I think it would be an agricultural installation.
    In terms of council tax/land usage it’s non-domestic
    As far as the insurance is concerned it probably gets classed as stables/equine or something like that.
    My point is that there is no universal definition of domestic or commercial and it will depend on the context.

    As for health and safety and the EAWR then if it is not a place of work then it won’t apply. So if nobody works there in exchange for money, goods or any other reward etc etc then it won’t apply.
    If you only keep your own horses there then it won’t apply, if someone else keeps their horse there or if someone else comes in to care for your horse while you are on holiday or whatever then this may change.

    Ultimately the health and safety question would likely only be raised, or properly answered, if something bad were to happen and it go to court.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Percyprod
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    Percyprod Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Cumbria
    Some good answers there, it's our own land, stables and horses. Planning was obtained before electricity supply was put in, when I asked the planning officer when to get in touch to get it signed off, he said "I don't want to know". As supply is pme there is a 2 way consumer unit with a 30ma rcd. 6amp mcb for lights, 20amp for socket. All wired in plastic conduit, led lighting all plastic construction. No metal work to bond, all switches in syore, everything out of reach of horses, 2 metre earth rod. Now I will wait for the critics to slate me for that. I know swa would be better, but I'm willing to take the risk.
    I see the point of hse being involved in the event of a problem, but if the regs aren't law, does it say anywhere that the hse will or can use them as a standard?
     
  12. Leesparkykent
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    Leesparkykent Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Location:
    Kent
    Hi @Percyprod@Percyprod are you genuinely interested or have you come on here to try and stir it up like you did last time? Just a word of warning that we are keeping an eye on this thread. Kind regards Lee
     
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  13. Percyprod
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    Percyprod Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Cumbria
    Hi Lee, no, genuinly interested, trying to get a concrete answer on what seems a bit of a minefield.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. Andy78
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    Andy78 Respected Member

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    So not content with electrocuting horses in a burning building, you've laid mines in case they try to escape ? :tearsofjoy:
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
  15. ferg
    Offline

    ferg Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    N.W.Scotland
    As long as the mines are accessible and bonded he should be fine.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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