Special Purpose Machines

[Gary Parker]

Good morning,
I wonder if anyone can help me. My company produces special purpose machines for the global market. We have built an impregnation machine for a client in Brazil. Three phase power in Brazil is 380 V @ 60Hz. Our client now wants to send this machine to Turkey instead. Three phase power in Turkey is 400 V @50Hz. What would be the best approach to take to convert the machine to run on Turkish power. The machine has a number of motors, pumps, inverters, PLC, HMI and the full load current is around 200A.
I look forward to receiving some feedback.
Regards

Gary Parker

 

[Darkwood]

Hi Garry, welcome to the forum.

It depends what parts you are using, how you are generating and powering your control voltage, you motors again may be universal and will usually express the voltages on the plate, if you are changing the voltage though you need to also consider the knock on effects, motors will run with slightly different characteristics and depending how they are controlled you may need to reprogram a VSD or change the O/L values, on the whole this can be a big problem and then again you may only need to make a few adjustments but every machine and its controls are different using different equipment and some will be flexible and tolerant while others will have issues.

You need to get your engineer if that is not yourself and go through all the controls and electrical equipment and check to see if there is any issue and contacting the manufacturer if necessary where info is not provided.

 

[netblindpaul]

Remember also, that Turkey whilst not in the EU has adopted EU directives, i.e. Machinery Directive, so the machine will need rebuilding to European standards and equipment rather than USA, you will need to put together a technical file etc. as you would for European machine.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

The voltage difference is negligible but the frequency difference could be a headache.
Line-fed motors will run too slow and may need to be inverter driven if the same speed is required, or gearing etc. changed. If the driven load can take a 17% speed reduction, the 60Hz motors may be OK with 50Hz, depending on design, or may run too hot on full voltage. In this case they may need replacing with 50Hz types, or if generously sized, run from a stepdown transformer at say 330V.
VSD motors themselves will be OK but the inverters will need to be compatible with 50Hz input.
Loads with phase-angle regulation may need the controller changed for a 50Hz type although the loads will probably be OK.
Stepdown transformers need to be checked for 50Hz compatibility - should be OK unless low-price types with inadequate iron.
Electronics fed from switched-mode power supplies should be fine.
Wirewound fluorescent ballasts would need changing.

It might be worth converting any large line-fed drives to VSD, and running everything small that is frequency sensitive and tricky or expensive to convert, from a 60Hz converter.

 

[Darkwood]

Out of interest what is this impregnation machine doing, what product is it working with?

 

[marconi]

I think your best approach is to provide the machine you have designed, built and tested already with its required supply of 380V/60Hz 3phase derived from 400V/50Hz/3phase using an industrial converter. You want one sized circa 380 x 200 x 1.7 = 130kVA but you need to establish the characteristics(ie: average, peak, starting, accelerating/deccelerating, pulsating) of the load current to size the converter.

Here is a UK company which makes a 150kVA converter:

http://www.powersystemsinternationa...ds/2017/04/Frequency-Converter-Publishing.pdf

ABB do a modular solution, the smallest module being 125kVA, which are often used to supply 60Hz ships from 50Hz shore supplies:

https://search-ext.abb.com/library/...guageCode=en&DocumentPartId=E01&Action=Launch

and finally Piller (who I have had in a site I looked after and the machine was very reliable):

Piller :: Solid State Frequency Converter - http://www.piller.com/en-GB/221/solid-state-frequency-converter

 

[tlangdon12]

Marconi's suggestion would also mean that the client could at a later date move the machine to Brazil or sell it with its converter into other markets, so this could preserve more value in the machine. I think it is a good suggestion.

 

[Spoon]

Don't forget post #3.

 

[GBDamo]

Is it only me thinking of Steve Martin's film The Jerk.

200A of special purpose inpregnator???

 

[Gary Parker]

Gents,
Thanks for all the comprehensive comments and suggestions. I have taken on board your comments and realise I have a lot more investigation to do. The suggestion to condition the incoming power feed seems to be the most logical. I will investigate this first. Many thanks to everyone who commented.

Best regards

Gary

 

[Spoon]

Hi @Gary Parker.
Carrying on from post #3:
The assembly was originally for Brazil, which should mean that all the components of the assembly should be UL marked/rated.
The assembly for Turkey would have to be CE marked/rated.
Therefore the components of the assembly that are not CE marked/rated need to changed.
You also you "will need to put together a technical file etc. as you would for European machine", as stated in post #3.
The whole thing might be put on hold if you have to change half the components... This needs investigating first..

 

[marconi]

CE Marking – Electronic Product Design - http://www.electronic-products-design.com/resources/regulations/ce-marking

 

[netblindpaul]

CE Marking – Electronic Product Design - http://www.electronic-products-design.com/resources/regulations/ce-marking

marconi,
That link is primarily related to electronics, this is a machine under the Machinery Directive, and for example if you take the Low Voltage Directive, it has a cut off point of 50V AC, the MD has nothing of the sort, and, in basic terms, if the thing is a machine and has mechanical hazards, then it comes under the MD.
It's not as simple as putting a supply converter on it if you want to comply with the law.
Machinery Compliance is now 90+% of my business, I work with end users, importers and OEM's to help them do this.
The last two days have been with the UK arm of a German company who are a global supplier in food machinery, helping them to CE mark a line that they have installed at an end user plant.
The machine will need to be modified to utilise CE marked equipment as has already been stated.
A technical file will need to be prepared, or, at least a system put in place to ensure that this can be made available.
Turkey have adopted all of the EU machinery requirements, that is the MD.

 

[Gary Parker]

Guys I agree with netblindpaul. We as a company have to CE mark the machine. Usually we design to CE in every case, even if the machine is going to the US. CE is usually more stringent than UL. We are very familiar with what is required to gain CE compliance. Good point though. Cheers. Gary

 

[marconi]

Some more reading for the OP - HSE Machinery Directive Guidance:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg270.pdf

The definition of machinery in the Machinery Directive - Work equipment and machinery - http://www.hse.gov.uk/work-equipment-machinery/machinery-directive-definition.htm

Gary Parker: It would be a good idea to contact the posters notably netblindpaul who have experience of CE marking and the Machinery Directive to accelerate your understanding of what is required.

 

[Spoon]

Usually we design to CE in every case, even if the machine is going to the US

I bet they will complain about that. They have always insisted on UL when we have done things for the US..