Sunbed shop. Breaker keeps tripping! HELP?!

[chreewebb]

Hi there, I run a small sunbed shop with 2 sunbeds. (please bare with me as I'm not very electrically minded)

I have a problem with my sunbed tripping out. I have 2 sunbeds running off one board (Single phase). The board product number is QFS-MB7 and the main switch is rated as 100A. I used to have two breakers (RCBO 50/30/SP 50A 30mA) and these were fine, however during the summer as I got super busy they would occasionally overheat and trip out. So I then set up a blow fan and got an electrician to seperate the breakers in the hope it would dissipate some of the heat and fix the problem. All was fine until one of my employees forgot to turn on the fan to keep everything cool and the breaker ended up tripping so much it must have worn it down and then would trip even when the fan was on. So I then replaced both of the breakers with (what I thought were) better ones, the same breaker but a C TYPE which I was told was better when dealing with sunbeds/fluorescent tubes (50A 30mA (C Type) RCBO single module). These were the same brand as the old one however believe they are a cheap-ish brand as I only paid around £35 for the two new TYPE C breakers. All was going fine, and as coming into Autumn I have been quieter business wise. But now the new breaker is tripping out again and I'm not even as busy as I used to be! The breaker is warm to the touch but no where near as hot as what they used to be like when I had the old breakers in but it is still tripping and getting worse! Any suggestions on what you guys think it could be? I'm really stuck here and it is affecting my business as it is tripping out on a customer mid sunbed! Could it be the cheap breakers or? Thanks for any help!! I really appreciate it.

 

[chreewebb]

Also.. just found this info out from when I opened up (been open just under a year.) I was advised this from my sunbed supplier.

50amp type c breaker 100milliamps
10mil cable
50amp rated rotary isolated switch just above skirting boards left within 1 metre of sunbeds


Sunbeds run at about 45 amps

 

[Lagentium]

I wouldn't have thought it would be a problem with your distribution board, or your protective devices (MCB/RCBO) I think they will be doing their job and it will be a problem with the sun beds or associated wiring.

 

[jackhammerJIM]

you need to employ an electrician to fix this for you .

 

[Darkwood]

Hi there, I run a small sunbed shop with 2 sunbeds. (please bare with me as I'm not very electrically minded)

I have a problem with my sunbed tripping out. I have 2 sunbeds running off one board (Single phase). The board product number is QFS-MB7 and the main switch is rated as 100A. I used to have two breakers (RCBO 50/30/SP 50A 30mA) and these were fine, however during the summer as I got super busy they would occasionally overheat and trip out. So I then set up a blow fan and got an electrician to seperate the breakers in the hope it would dissipate some of the heat and fix the problem. All was fine until one of my employees forgot to turn on the fan to keep everything cool and the breaker ended up tripping so much it must have worn it down and then would trip even when the fan was on. So I then replaced both of the breakers with (what I thought were) better ones, the same breaker but a C TYPE which I was told was better when dealing with sunbeds/fluorescent tubes (50A 30mA (C Type) RCBO single module). These were the same brand as the old one however believe they are a cheap-ish brand as I only paid around £35 for the two new TYPE C breakers. All was going fine, and as coming into Autumn I have been quieter business wise. But now the new breaker is tripping out again and I'm not even as busy as I used to be! The breaker is warm to the touch but no where near as hot as what they used to be like when I had the old breakers in but it is still tripping and getting worse! Any suggestions on what you guys think it could be? I'm really stuck here and it is affecting my business as it is tripping out on a customer mid sunbed! Could it be the cheap breakers or? Thanks for any help!! I really appreciate it.

Hi-lighting the part here where you said you got an Electrician in... hmmm, tbh I'm not sure who you got in but it wasn't a competent electrician, he would have found the cause, rectified the issue and left you an happy customer IMHO.

You need to get a 'Competent Electrician' in this time, someone who will identify and rectify the problem.

Can you confirm the manufacturers expressed 100mA rated protection as you have 30mA at the moment and this could be due to regulations regarding install methods, without a site visit it all guess work here.

Due to the current flow is close to rating of device and high you would need a spacing between devices to allow dissipation of heat - this was a poor install by the sound of it from the original design point of view.

 

[chreewebb]

Holy crap, just been doing some research online!! and the notes I received from my sunbed suppliers were as follows..
50amp type c breaker 100milliamps
10mil cable
50amp rated rotary isolated switch just above skirting boards left within 1 metre of sunbeds
Sunbeds run at about 45 amps

I passed this info onto my electrician and have now realised he's put 30mA breakers in!! Wow! Guess that's my problem!

 

[Darkwood]

Holy crap, just been doing some research online!! and the notes I received from my sunbed suppliers were as follows..
50amp type c breaker 100milliamps
10mil cable
50amp rated rotary isolated switch just above skirting boards left within 1 metre of sunbeds
Sunbeds run at about 45 amps

I passed this info onto my electrician and have now realised he's put 30mA breakers in!! Wow! Guess that's my problem!

It may be but needs confirming, also it may not be as simple as refitting with 100mA protection, it depends on how the circuit has been installed, alterations or new circuit maybe needed to allow compliance with regulations.

Strange that the sunbeds have been design with such high leakage for sale in our market as other regulations may mean the install is subject tighter regulations.

Do you have a link to the model and manufacturer of the sunbed?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Holy crap, just been doing some research online!! and the notes I received from my sunbed suppliers were as follows..
50amp type c breaker 100milliamps
10mil cable
50amp rated rotary isolated switch just above skirting boards left within 1 metre of sunbeds
Sunbeds run at about 45 amps

I passed this info onto my electrician and have now realised he's put 30mA breakers in!! Wow! Guess that's my problem!

I cant see any point in a 100ma RCD unless disconnection times are not met by the MCB. Assuming that the MCB meets ADS requirements an RCD would be there for additional protection,and a 100ma RCD does not provide additional protection as required by bs 7671.

 

[chreewebb]

Thanks for the replies! Just pulled this info off of a sunbed supplier website.

Lie down sunbed: Single phase: 45 or 50 Amp MCBThree phase: 3 x 20 Amp MCB
Vertical Tanning Unit: Single phase: 63 Amp MCBThree phase: 3 x 32 Amp MCB
Residual Current Device (RCD/RCB/RCBO) is optional, but if fitted must be 100mA trip, not 30mA.
Cable Single phase: 10mm Twin and Earth (Lie down and vertical sunbeds)
Cable 3 Phase: 3 x 4mm (Lie down sunbeds)3 x 6mm (Vertical sunbeds)

I'm running single phase and have stand up sunbeds. What would be my best route.. 2 x 63Amp MCB?

Thanks for the help guys, appreciate it.

 

[Darkwood]

The 100mA may be a manufacturers requirement on their product which I have questioned not a requirement of the circuit as such.

 

[Darkwood]

Thanks for the replies! Just pulled this info off of a sunbed supplier website.

Lie down sunbed: Single phase: 45 or 50 Amp MCBThree phase: 3 x 20 Amp MCB
Vertical Tanning Unit: Single phase: 63 Amp MCBThree phase: 3 x 32 Amp MCB
Residual Current Device (RCD/RCB/RCBO) is optional, but if fitted must be 100mA trip, not 30mA.
Cable Single phase: 10mm Twin and Earth (Lie down and vertical sunbeds)
Cable 3 Phase: 3 x 4mm (Lie down sunbeds)3 x 6mm (Vertical sunbeds)

I'm running single phase and have stand up sunbeds. What would be my best route.. 2 x 63Amp MCB?

Thanks for the help guys, appreciate it.

It seems to have answered you problem in that you have the wrong breakers in if that is relevent to your model, I would get an Electrician in to confirm you can remove the 30mA protection although I don't really think your issue lies here and more in the fact you are running a larger load than you thought in the first place.. again test equipment to confirm so call a competent Electrician to do this and possible circuit alterations.

This can be a fire or shock hazard if not done correctly so please do not cut corners.

As you have been open 1yr I assume you had these supplies put in by a competent person, he may be liable for the alterations regardless if it is over a year..

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Thanks for the replies! Just pulled this info off of a sunbed supplier website.

Lie down sunbed: Single phase: 45 or 50 Amp MCBThree phase: 3 x 20 Amp MCB
Vertical Tanning Unit: Single phase: 63 Amp MCBThree phase: 3 x 32 Amp MCB
Residual Current Device (RCD/RCB/RCBO) is optional, but if fitted must be 100mA trip, not 30mA.
Cable Single phase: 10mm Twin and Earth (Lie down and vertical sunbeds)
Cable 3 Phase: 3 x 4mm (Lie down sunbeds)3 x 6mm (Vertical sunbeds)

I'm running single phase and have stand up sunbeds. What would be my best route.. 2 x 63Amp MCB?

Thanks for the help guys, appreciate it.

As the spec is for 63a MCB's it would appear your present set up is overloaded. However you CANNOT simply change your 50a MCB's to 63a,it is essential that tests are carried out to verify disconnection times,and cables as installed meet the requirements of an uprated device.

 

[chreewebb]

I understand, thanks for the help.

Would I be able to run x2 63Amp MCB's off my board as it says Max Load: 100amp. The beds run at about 45amp each?

Will get an electrician to come do all the checks..

 

[Darkwood]

I understand, thanks for the help.

Would I be able to run x2 63Amp MCB's off my board as it says Max Load: 100amp. The beds run at about 45amp each?

Will get an electrician to come do all the checks..

We cannot possibly tell you as we do not have the load info for the vertical beds only the rating of the MCB's required.

 

[chreewebb]

Okay I've just contacted an electrician and hopefully should be able to get it sorted! Gonna get him to come check my set up and see if I can go for the 63Amp MCB's! Thank you

 

[Octopus]

Just make sure your sparky has a decent clamp meter in his bag!

 

[chreewebb]

We cannot possibly tell you as we do not have the load info for the vertical beds only the rating of the MCB's required.

Could anyone explain which kA rating I would need, 6kA or 10kA? Thanks, also what type would best suit me?

 

[Deleted member 72666]

Nobody on a forum will be able to answer that without first seeing and testing the circuits involved.

 

[telectrix]

Could anyone explain which kA rating I would need, 6kA or 10kA? Thanks, also what type would best suit me?

there again, tests would confirm the prospective fault current which would determine the kA rating of the breakers.

 

[davesparks]

Could anyone explain which kA rating I would need, 6kA or 10kA? Thanks, also what type would best suit me?

The kA rating will be determined by a property of you main electricity supplied called the prospective fault current. An electrician will be able to explain this on site.