Switching Arrangement

[LankyWill]

Back again!

Im currently doing some garden lighting at my parents place and need some help on the switching arrangement. I ran all armoured's(9) back to the garage and connected them to a din rail enclosure, from this enclosure i ran a 12core armoured to the house via adaptable box. The switching was going to be a switch bank inside. As per usual the client(mother) has changed her mind and wants the lighting on timers and the ability to override the bollard lighting via a switch indoors. i was thinking= timer- contactor-lights for the ''all on setting'' then for the bollard only im stuck. how do i only bring the bollards on without the rest of the lights? somehow i think i need a relay but i haven't done much of this, only used relays for heating. Anybody got any ideas?

 

[Wilko]

Is it as simple as using one of the 12 cores to send another switched live to the bollards? Or if there is one time sw for 8 feeds and another timer for bollards with a switched live over ride, say. Otherwise that's a lot of timers

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Use a 3 pole contactor. Run the bollards through a separate pole to the rest of the lights. Connect a switched live to the output contact of the bollards pole. When the contactor is energised all the lights will be on, but when it is not energised the switched live will power only the bollard lights.

 

[LankyWill]

Use a 3 pole contactor. Run the bollards through a separate pole to the rest of the lights. Connect a switched live to the output contact of the bollards pole. When the contactor is energised all the lights will be on, but when it is not energised the switched live will power only the bollard lights.

Thanks for the reply, but what will happen if the switch is energised when the contactor is shut?

 

[LankyWill]

Here what i have come up with? probably over engineered but what do you guys think?

View attachment 35069

 

[LankyWill]

The time clock has open and closed lives, i will use the Hager EG103

 

[Lucien Nunes]

There's some odd stuff going on there with an interconnection between both sides of the FCU and the possibility of energising the line when the neutral is off!

If you don't need to switch the neutral of the lights, no relay is needed. Just feed the bollards from the common of a 2-way switch, that selects between switched and permanent live sides of the contactor contact circuit for timed and override respectively.

If you do want to switch the neutral, use a separate small double-pole contactor for the bollards. Feed its coil from the common of a 2-way switch, that selects between the timeswitch output and timeswitch permanent live.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Thanks for the reply, but what will happen if the switch is energised when the contactor is shut?

Nothing. If the contactor contacts are open then only the bollard lights will operate. if the contactor is shut and the override switch on,as long as it is fed from the same live as the bollards there will be no problem. As Lucien has stated there is no need to switch the neutrals. Simply energise the contactor coil with the clock, run all lights lines except the bollards through one pole,and the bollards line through a separate pole. Connect the override switch from a permanent live to the bollard line.
Just to complicate it a bit further....it's a good idea to add a photocell to the timeswitch. This avoids the constant need to adjust the on time with the seasons. To do this use a no volt contacts clock. Run the switch line through the PC first and use the NV contacts on the clock to break the switch line to the contactor coil. Set the clock on time to about 3pm and it will not operate until dusk all year round.

 

[LankyWill]

Nothing. If the contactor contacts are open then only the bollard lights will operate. if the contactor is shut and the override switch on,as long as it is fed from the same live as the bollards there will be no problem. As Lucien has stated there is no need to switch the neutrals. Simply energise the contactor coil with the clock, run all lights lines except the bollards through one pole,and the bollards line through a separate pole. Connect the override switch from a permanent live to the bollard line.
Just to complicate it a bit further....it's a good idea to add a photocell to the timeswitch. This avoids the constant need to adjust the on time with the seasons. To do this use a no volt contacts clock. Run the switch line through the PC first and use the NV contacts on the clock to break the switch line to the contactor coil. Set the clock on time to about 3pm and it will not operate until dusk all year round.

Wirepuller your spot on, i am just going to go with your 3 pole contractor idea. Are you saying go from the timeclock-photocell-contactor-lights? or Timeclock-contactor-photocell-lights?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

It's best to keep a supply to the PC at all times. So feed the PC, the switched live from the PC break through the no volt clock contacts and from there to the coil. The PC will switch on at dusk and the clock can be used to switch off the coil supply at any time desired. You'll need a clock with at least 4 terminals, probably 5....ie L and N for the clock motor, and a no volt set of switch contacts which is likely to be common, normally open and normally closed. You would choose a contactor on the number of circuits to feed the lights. So a 3 pole could switch 3 completely separate circuits by connecting a live from each mcb to the top terminal and a line to the lights to the bottom terminal of each pole.If there is only one circuit then link across all top terminals. Any of the circuits could have a separate manual switch by connecting an on/off switch across the top and bottom terminals of that particular pole.

 

[Dave OCD]

Hey Will please don't be offended but this seems a little needlessly over complex for domestic garden lighting, although it will be satisfying to make it all work as per the 'clients' wishes I'm sure a few switches would do just fine.

 

[LankyWill]

Hey Will please don't be offended but this seems a little needlessly over complex for domestic garden lighting, although it will be satisfying to make it all work as per the 'clients' wishes I'm sure a few switches would do just fine.

I know Dave, it seems over engineered and a pain in the arse! Thats exactly what i had designed first time round, but because the clients disabled they want the lights on timers to avoid them being left on all night. I feel like the whole i am an electrician not a magician phrase comes into mind.

Cheers for the advice wirepuller, i know it may seem tedious but i appreciate your help and advice.

 

[chris day]

Back again!

Im currently doing some garden lighting at my parents place and need some help on the switching arrangement. I ran all armoured's(9) back to the garage and connected them to a din rail enclosure, from this enclosure i ran a 12core armoured to the house via adaptable box. The switching was going to be a switch bank inside. As per usual the client(mother) has changed her mind and wants the lighting on timers and the ability to override the bollard lighting via a switch indoors. i was thinking= timer- contactor-lights for the ''all on setting'' then for the bollard only im stuck. how do i only bring the bollards on without the rest of the lights? somehow i think i need a relay but i haven't done much of this, only used relays for heating. Anybody got any ideas?

Hello

Put a two gang switch inside the house, supply one switch with the time clock-photocell supply, then supply the other switch with a permanent live from wherever you want.

Double down on the a1 terminal on a separate single pole contractor

The 8 other lights I would spread across 3x3pole contractors and loop out all the bottom supplies.

Might look ugly but label override and time clock switch accordingly.



Hope that's helps..