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Discuss Tel, if you're calling it a day, could you sort out this one for me first? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. pirate
    Offline

    pirate Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Like I said, don't just give it up, choose what you want to do, and do no more...or words to that effect!
    I'm back on my Men's Shed charity thing today. I was about to install that 6mm in free air for that huge cooker when a guy dropped in a reel of 25 metres of 10mm, so just used that instead. Overkill maybe, but it was a donation and every penny counts. Ok, here is my query for all you sparks out there...
    In our Shed, I have installed a 2.5mm ring for the water heaters. I mean, by that, I have merely run the cable, the drops and connected the water heaters currently as a spur, until the real spark comes along to finish the ring. We were going to have 3 undersink heaters, but actually only have 2...one at 2kw and one at 3kw. All well there, then...but now I am informed that we are to install 2 electric hand driers, in the 2 accessible toilets (I mean, who would have inaccessible ones?) and these will be in the order of 2.5kw each. Thus, I am going to ask a question about diversity...
    I know, it's not cookers, it's more like a couple of tiny showers, but they run differently, and the two driers, and I was just thinking/hoping that I could add the two driers to the water heater ring.
    I was calculating that the 2 water heaters come to 5kw, say 22A...but they cycle, so only drawing max power occasionally, as someone draws off hot water and they cut in to heat the next stored batch...we are talking a kitchen and 2 washhand basins, so very unlikely to have all 3 drawing at one time, and if so, not for more than 30 seconds or so, then they go back to standby, occasionally boosting the stored supply as it is used or loses temperature.
    However, if I add the 2 hand driers, there's another 5kw/22A, but of course those are also intermittent in use, for maybe 30 seconds at a time...now, I can see that with usage of say, one water heater and a drier, there's no problem really...but if both toilets are in use, and a sink, it could just be the case that 2 heaters are cutting in to replenish hot water because 2 people have just washed their hands...and then turn immediately to the driers, so everything is on at once, as it were.
    Sorry, I'm maybe not explaining this very well! My worry is not that it will all go bang...it's that if the breaker does trip we might just have someone in a loo with no hot water or hand drier...
    Am I being paranoid, or should I just put in a separate circuit to be safe, or am I so widely off the mark that I should just run the whole lot off bellwire...oh! Speaking of which, I have to wire for disabled pull-switch alarms too...might just run a separate circuit for those.

    Finally,
    no...
    it's a lighting question, so I will save that for a different thread!

    As Alistair Cooke used to say, if you have been..thank you for listening!
     
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  2. LankyWill
    Offline

    LankyWill Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northants
    Storm in a teacup- just install a separate circuit for the hand driers.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Leesparkykent
    Offline

    Leesparkykent You Rock Gmes Staff Member Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kent
    Put the hand driers on a seperate circuit.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  4. pirate
    Offline

    pirate Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Plus, meant to say, we had a donation day yesterday at The Shed, and received more than 20 double sockets, most in their original packaging, a dozen backboxes, 2 old-style MK weatherproof outdoor sockets (the "proper" old ones with good gaskets, still in their cardboard boxes), 10 brass double sockets in original packets, a whole bunch of plastic drywall boxes, some JBs, outside enclosures, a workbench, several hand planes, a pillar-drill assembly...the list goes on and on...
    and 8 huge, fully planted, hanging baskets! The Local Authority gave us those as they have an overtime ban just now, so if they installed them in the town center they would die as they can't afford to water them...
    Oh well, we are grateful for everything, and working 5 days a week for nothing in money terms is the best time I have had for years...the banter and the cooperation and diverse talents all pulling together is a revelation to me!
    Tel and others looking at retirement, check out your nearest Men's Shed! You can change lives!
    Plug over!
     
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    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. pirate
    Offline

    pirate Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Thanks LankyWill, and LSK, appreciate your input! It was just the extra 20 m of cabling I wa saving, but hey...buttons!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Vortigern
    Offline

    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    We normally put them on radials at 16a. So if you have to change one you don't have to switch the whole lot off. Paper towels are better though. Hand dryers are noisy and ineffective imo. Except for the blade that actually seems to work! So maybe you could adapt your ring and set them up as radials to the different appliances?
     
  7. pirate
    Offline

    pirate Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Thanks Vortigen for that input, it helps a lot. The water heaters are on a ring which hasn't been connected to the DB yet, so is open-ended spur at the moment. I could convert this into 2 radials.
    We did consider paper towels, but H&S input said not to go that route...someone has to pick up the discarded dirty towels, we have to provide receptacles for the used towels, we have to keep stocks of new towels, and someone has to replenish the machines and the stocks...
    also, height is a thing as some may be in wheelchairs and can't reach higher level towel dispensers, and we don't have room for both. I appreciate your views though, and thanks for your thoughts.
     
  8. Vortigern
    Offline

    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    Is there a mens shed in bristol then?
     
  9. pirate
    Offline

    pirate Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
  10. davesparks
    Offline

    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    A ring circuit is not really suitable for water heaters, they are relatively large loads at single points on the ring and do not evenly distribute the load around the circuit.
     
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