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Discuss The Snoopers Charter in the Electricians Chat - Off Topic Chat area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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Did you know about the snoopers charter ? Its been going on for years

  1. yes heard about when it started in November 2015 when it started going through the various stages of

    5 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. No this is the first I have heard of it

    3 vote(s)
    30.0%
  3. Don't care

    2 vote(s)
    20.0%
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  1. Barry White
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    Barry White Guest

    Well this seems to have been swept through without much publicity.(By the folks who control publicity)
    see The Government just passed the most extreme surveillance law in history – say goodbye to your privacy - http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/snoopers-charter-theresa-may-online-privacy-investigatory-powers-act-a7426461.html
    "Well I don't do anything wrong so it wont affect me ? "
    Well it wont if you are an MP the very people who have introduced the bill have exempted themselves.
    MPs just passed the most draconian spying laws ever. Guess who they made exempt - http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/investigatory-powers-bill-a7447781.html

    Here's a list of who can snoop on you now.

    Metropolitan police force
    City of London police force
    Police forces maintained under section 2 of the Police Act 1996
    Police Service of Scotland
    Police Service of Northern Ireland
    British Transport Police
    Ministry of Defence Police
    Royal Navy Police
    Royal Military Police
    Royal Air Force Police
    Security Service
    Secret Intelligence Service
    GCHQ
    Ministry of Defence
    Department of Health
    Home Office
    Ministry of Justice
    National Crime Agency
    HM Revenue & Customs
    Department for Transport
    Department for Work and Pensions
    NHS trusts and foundation trusts in England that provide ambulance services
    Common Services Agency for the Scottish Health Service
    Competition and Markets Authority
    Criminal Cases Review Commission
    Department for Communities in Northern Ireland
    Department for the Economy in Northern Ireland
    Department of Justice in Northern Ireland
    Financial Conduct Authority
    Fire and rescue authorities under the Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004
    Food Standards Agency
    Food Standards Scotland
    Gambling Commission
    Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority
    Health and Safety Executive
    Independent Police Complaints Commissioner
    Information Commissioner
    NHS Business Services Authority
    Northern Ireland Ambulance Service Health and Social Care Trust
    Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service Board
    Northern Ireland Health and Social Care Regional Business Services Organisation
    Office of Communications
    Office of the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland
    Police Investigations and Review Commissioner
    Scottish Ambulance Service Board
    Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission
    Serious Fraud Office
    Welsh Ambulance Services National Health Service Trust

    Under the guise of counter-terrorism, the British state has achieved totalitarian-style surveillance powers – the most intrusive system of any democracy in history. It now has the ability to indiscriminately hack, intercept, record, and monitor the communications and internet use of the entire population.



    Anyone read the book 1984?

    Would be interested in your comments please.
     
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  2. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    Gob smacked at the list ...
    WTF has 9/10ths of that lot got to do with securing our safety from terrorists?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. snowhead
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    snowhead Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Mildlands
    Millions of people have been illegally hacking into computer systems since the Internet came into being.
    Phone calls have been tapped from the beginning of the phone system
    What difference does it make now that some of them can obtain your information, without hacking, legally?

    And MP's are NOT exempt, there is an additional level of authorisation before their information is accessed.

    Assume the Internet is unsafe and you'll have no problems.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  4. Barry White
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    Barry White Guest

    Yes only via the prime minister!! can mps be snooped upon!

    Everything we do and say is on the internet you can't avoid it even living off grid.

    Would like a poll on who knew about this serious law being introduced and who did not.
     
  5. Spoon
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    Spoon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    I feel sorry for the person who has to snoop on me. They will be bored silly... Unless they like YouTube videos of Minecraft and 7D2D
     
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  6. Marvo
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    Marvo GMES....You absolute beauty. YOU ROCK DUDE!!!! Staff Member

    Location:
    South Africa
    There's is no freedom anymore,

    Every breath you take and every move you make
    Every bond you break, every step you take,
    Every single day and every word you say
    Every game you play, every night you stay,
    Every move you make, every vow you break
    Every smile you fake, every claim you stake, they'll be watching you
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. Marvo
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    Marvo GMES....You absolute beauty. YOU ROCK DUDE!!!! Staff Member

    Location:
    South Africa
    Absolutely nothing, they'll try and sell it to the sheep as security from terrorists or preventing kids seeing pron or preventing sexual predators but they're just legitimising into law what they've been doing illegally for years.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. FatAlan
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    FatAlan Trainee Trainee Access

    Location:
    Surrey
    To be frank I'm more worried about the data that the private comms companies hold on us and sell on for profit.
     
  9. Marvo
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    Marvo GMES....You absolute beauty. YOU ROCK DUDE!!!! Staff Member

    Location:
    South Africa
    The problem is that they're collecting enormous amounts of data about you and they're increasing the availability of that data to every Tom, Dick and Harry.

    Your freedom is gone and the question you have to ask is do you feel safe from terrorists and paedophiles? If you do feel safe then you've traded you freedom and privacy for your safety, if not then you've sacrificed your freedom and privacy for nothing. Either way beware though, it's a small step from a surveillance state to a totalitarian state.
     
  10. Marvo
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    Marvo GMES....You absolute beauty. YOU ROCK DUDE!!!! Staff Member

    Location:
    South Africa
    Out of interest I'd be interested to know how many people actively take measures to maintain their privacy.
    Things like using Tor, VPN's, fully encrypted messaging apps, local disk encryption, secure and encrypted email services, secure cloud storage and sync, complex passwords and 2-stage verification/authorisation, private search engines (duckduckgo etc), avoiding smart phone use, avoiding partaking in social media platforms.
     
  11. Barry White
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    Barry White Guest

    Just look at the list
    Department for Transport
    Department for Work and Pensions
    NHS trusts and foundation trusts in England that provide ambulance services
    Common Services Agency for the Scottish Health Service
    Competition and Markets Authority
    Department for Communities in Northern Ireland
    Department for the Economy in Northern Ireland
    Department of Justice in Northern Ireland
    Financial Conduct Authority
    Fire and rescue authorities under the Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004
    Food Standards Agency
    Food Standards Scotland
    Gambling Commission
    Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority
    Health and Safety Executive
    Information Commissioner
    NHS Business Services Authority
    Northern Ireland Ambulance Service Health and Social Care Trust
    Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service Board
    Northern Ireland Health and Social Care Regional Business Services Organisation
    Office of Communications
    Scottish Ambulance Service Board
    Welsh Ambulance Services National Health Service Trust

    Do you think the above are secure. Even charity's sell our information. Do you honestly think they have an interest in terrorism? Or have any interest or means to stop Pedophiles.

    Deffo 1984 NOW
     
  12. Barry White
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    Barry White Guest

    A taste of whats could now happen remember the Tiananmen Square masacre in china well it didnt happen in china!
    From 6 Things You Should Know About the Tiananmen Square Massacre - http://time.com/2822290/tiananmen-square-massacre-facts-time/

    Chinese authorities still censor information about the massacre

    More than a quarter century after the massacre, the Chinese government’s extensive censorship apparatus—which employs two million online censors — still rigorously blocks information about the protest. The ban is so total that not only is the search term “Tiananmen Square” censored, but so too are related words and phrases. Authorities have even gone as far as blocking combinations of the numbers 6, 4, 1989 that might obliquely reference the date of the protest, June 4, 1989. So for many members of the world’s largest online population, the facts about the bloody crackdown have been erased.
     
  13. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    Northampton
    FSB
    MOSSAD
    CIA
    FBI
     
  14. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    With this in one hand, apparently we are putting our nuclear and telecoms infrastructure in their other. What could possibly go wrong?
     
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  15. FatAlan
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    FatAlan Trainee Trainee Access

    Location:
    Surrey
    RIPA has been in place since 2000 chaps so not a lot has changed. The issue is getting data out out the internet companies. Surveillance authorities are a real pain in the arse to get authorised (quite rightly) as not only do you have to justify breach of privacy but they cost a fortune especially if you are looking at physical surveillance teams. They have to be very specific. If you think police forces go on fishing trips you are barking up the wrong tree. The security services hunting for the next bomber will be looking for needles in haystacks but I don't have a problem with that.
    I do have issues with local authorities watching to see if people put their bins out on the right day!
     
  16. rolyberkin
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    rolyberkin Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Chelmsford
    No one wants surveillance but everyone wants their families to be safe from terrorists, online hackers, wants everything done when their bank account is emptied by organized criminal groups, want action if their kids are subject to predatory behaviour online from pedophiles. Well my friends, wake up and smell the coffee, you want protection and to be safe, then you have to give up some of this so called (non existent) privacy. I hazard a guess that if I did an online consenting database check on any of you who are complaining about this unnecessary affront to your privacy your full details would be splashed all over the web in the public domain in any case!:)
     
  17. FatAlan
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    FatAlan Trainee Trainee Access

    Location:
    Surrey
    Biggest issue is the obstruction placed by private businesses on access to data by law enforcement agencies which the criminals use to their full advantage. If you lose money via a fraudulent money transfer the banks won't provide police the details of where the money has gone without a court order despite you reporting the fraud to the bank. Mean time money has long gone. Some phone companies are still really obstructive about providing phone data. All depends on whether you want your crime investigated folks...and that is getting very rare these days unless the perpetrator is bloody obvious.
     
  18. Marvo
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    Marvo GMES....You absolute beauty. YOU ROCK DUDE!!!! Staff Member

    Location:
    South Africa
    I don't think the wholesale invasion of everyones privacy is having much sucess in preventing terrorists or paedophiles. Both those groups are more often than not tach-savvy enough to avoid detection. Every single day kids are still getting groomed and 'lone wolf' terrorists are driving trucks into Christmas markets.

    You'd be wrong. I use TOR, I use end to end encryption for all messaging and internet activity, I use complex and unique passwords, I use hardware and software firewalls on my routers, local drive encryption on laptops and PC's etc. I don't partake in social media and most times if I ever absolutely have to supply an email address I use a disposable. My critical laptops and PC's run versions of Linux biased for privacy. None of my visible web content is under my actual name. I recently got my first iphone and deliberately chose a chinese brand that could be rooted and reinstalled to provide privacy so GPS is disabled, transmitted packet monitor etc. I'm not saying I'm untraceable but I'm not making their lives easy.

    I think the crucial flaw in your concerns here is that all the instances you've stated are not about prevention of crime, they're about making inverstigation easier after the crime has already been commited. The milisecond money disappears from a bank account it's already long gone, no amount of sacrificing your privacy is going to make one iota of difference to that fact, all it's doing is making the police investigation easier (assuming they're actually interested in investigating), it means the police no longer need to do actual police work, they can sit at a desk in front of a computer instead. Sorry but I'm not willing to sacrifice my privacy for their convenience.
     
  19. rolyberkin
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    rolyberkin Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Chelmsford
    So you have no mortgage, no credit, no insurance,no utility bills, never use your name on any documentation, no driving licence etc etc etc.
     
  20. Marvo
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    Marvo GMES....You absolute beauty. YOU ROCK DUDE!!!! Staff Member

    Location:
    South Africa
    Yes but I'd expect any info I surrendered to the establishments that supply the things you mentioned to be kept private and not shared willy nilly with my local ambulance service or any other organisation for that matter.

    I think you may be misunderstanding my stance. I'm not saying I want to live off the grid entirely I'm saying I value my privacy and any time I interact in an area where I can't control who is privy to my information I'll take steps to protect it myself.
     
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  21. rolyberkin
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    rolyberkin Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Chelmsford
    RIPA is not about the wholesale invasion of everyone's privacy it is about putting in legislation a framework whereby those who have a legitimate need to access information are able to do it with the protection of legislation, it is a balance to the human rights act which tends to be used to provide protection to those who consistently prey on the vulnerable in our society using the internet and other sources of data. You are right that there will never be 100% success in targeting those who prey on the vulnerable but in my mind if it prevents one child being subjected to emotional or physical sexual abuse, prevent or detect terrorism or protect an elderly person being fleeced of their life savings then to potentially give up a bit of privacy is a worthwhile sacrifice.
     
  22. Marvo
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    Marvo GMES....You absolute beauty. YOU ROCK DUDE!!!! Staff Member

    Location:
    South Africa
    There's a lack of oversight and the list of organisations entitled to the info is way too broad. The requests for info by security services under the existing framework run into hundreds of thousands. Obviously, with the expanded number of organisations now with their spoon in the pot, this number is going to increase radically. There's no way that each of these requests can be individually and thoroughly assessed for validity so it just becomes a rubber stamping exercise. Also there's the fact nobody ever wants to deny a request because of the likelyhood of them becoming the scapegoat down the line so they're far more likely to approve invalid requests to cover their own asses.

    As for the argument 'if it saves one child or one victim or stops one terrorist.......' I completely disagree. A persons right to privacy has always been a fundamental right and as such it can't be trumped by another fundamental right. In the US it's written in stone in the constitution, in the UK, up until fairly recently, it was deeply enshrined by centuries of case law but it has now been erroded by very recent legislation.

    The 'if it saves one child' argument is the kinda sheep fodder main course the government will feed the general population to pass self-serving legislation. followed by some 'if you've got nothing to hide' fodder for dessert.
     
  23. Dan
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    Dan I'm not a sparky but I know a couple ;-) Staff Member

    Location:
    Staffordshire
    Use a proxy service and end to end encryption email and tor browser and things like that if it's a big thing you're concerned with.

    Most large firms already have data on all of us anyway.

    It does annoy me but what can we do?
     
  24. Dan
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    Dan I'm not a sparky but I know a couple ;-) Staff Member

    Location:
    Staffordshire
  25. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    My concern is the lack of balance. I hear of police hampered in their investigations etc, and I don't want that. On the other hand, there's the shopping list of pedestrian agencies that can now do it ... So I'd like to see penalties for incorrect use of information, to give pause for thought when we've apparently agreed we no longer need a judge and a warrant to get in their way. Perhaps these penalties already exist?
     
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  26. Dan
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    Dan I'm not a sparky but I know a couple ;-) Staff Member

    Location:
    Staffordshire
    It's going to get abused for sure. It'll be years before a whistleblower announces it lol
     
  27. FatAlan
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    FatAlan Trainee Trainee Access

    Location:
    Surrey
    You may find that list of agencies is just those authorised under RIPA. I fail to see whether a local authority or like could ever justify getting involved in intercepting or monitoring communications. You need very high level authorisation for that.
     
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  28. FatAlan
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    FatAlan Trainee Trainee Access

    Location:
    Surrey
    Police only play lip service to fraud investigations. What they do look at is just the tip of the iceberg. Action Fraud just sweeps everything under the carpet as there are no resources to investigate. Currently all detectives are tied up on historic sex abuse investigations.
     
  29. Marvo
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    Marvo GMES....You absolute beauty. YOU ROCK DUDE!!!! Staff Member

    Location:
    South Africa
    There never are penalties for incorrect use of information. After the Snowdon revelations on the UK illegal monitoring activities there was zero fallout, they just passed new laws to to make their illegal behaviour into legal behaviour.

    It's not about 'hamperaing' investigations, it's about making police activities easier but if you want to do that then the best way is nighttime cerfew or military law, roadblocks every mile as you enter city centres, make everyone carry full boimetrics ID documents around their necks. The job of the police will be a doddle......it will be a pretty **** life for everyone else though.
     
  30. Barry White
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    Barry White Guest

  31. Pat H
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    Pat H Don't ask, get an Electrician in.

    Location:
    Ware Herts
    Business Name:
    Sparks of Intelligence
    Luckily at least for a while yet we have the EU to protect our rights. The snoopers charter has been declared illegal.
    Mind we'll be out of Europe eventually and then our government will be free to snoop and more all under the guise of protecting us.
     
  32. Marvo
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    Marvo GMES....You absolute beauty. YOU ROCK DUDE!!!! Staff Member

    Location:
    South Africa
    There was already an official petition with more than double the required sign-ups but they've declined it already. Petition: Repeal the new Surveillance laws (Investigatory Powers Act) - https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/173199
     
  33. Barry White
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    Barry White Guest

  34. andyb
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    andyb Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    West Sussex
    Had a quick look at the link, couldn't see any MPs, to save me time going through all of it, how many MPs are on there?
     
  35. Barry White
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    Barry White Guest

    Had a quick look myself and have to admit there aren't many MPs and some are very historical. Obviously I have not read the full list
     
  36. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    S##t, I didn't realise the extent of this. I'm gonna have to stop using those gardening & knitting web sites. How am I going to train my clematis and weft & warp.

     

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