The use of plastic wall plugs for the 18th....

[Briggs69]

What a load of tosh.banning plastic raw plugs.get a grip.the rest of the building will have hundreds of them for plumbing,joinery etc so what diffrence will it make.its just getting to the point of stupid now.

 

[Spoon]

What a load of tosh.banning plastic raw plugs.get a grip.the rest of the building will have hundreds of them for plumbing,joinery etc so what diffrence will it make.its just getting to the point of stupid now.

I think the point of this is to stop firefighters getting "entangled" in cables. They are less likely to get entangled in copper/plastic piping & timber.

 

[Midwest]

I remember either reading, watching a video or one of those Web in Air things from NICEIC/Elecsa, whereby the question of the use of plastic rawplugs in such situations, was raised.

In essence, the response was that the surrounding building material, brick or concrete etc would prevent the failure of the plastic fixing. This was around the time of the introduction of A3, about the same time as the IET report; so there's some confusion or disagreement there. However, as this report was published in 2015, surely there most be some more up to date guidance on this, as the 18th has expanded on this matter.

Could not a member ask their schemes technical for guidance. I would, but as I've no longer in a scheme, so can't

 

[pirate]

I'm trying to get to grips here...
If you install cables over an escape route/doorway in such a fashion that they could fall and impede access in the eveny of fire, then the installation should be designed to prevent this happening. Plastic conduit won't work, regardless of how it is fastened to the wall/ceiling, unless the conduit is purely for aesthetic purposes and the cables are bundled and affixed to the structure with non-inflammable cable ties or similar, which are attached to non-inflammable bases with metal screws into the wall/ceiling...this would be a lot of work.
If the cables are above ceiling height, the same applies, but on tray, suitable affixed with non-inflammable fasteners, and located with, say, stainless steel cable ties, would that not be sufficient?
Seems to me, it is a matter of two factors, namely the method of fixing the cables together/alongside each other under/over a tray/ceiling, and then the method of affixing whatever tray/enclosure is used, to the fabric of the building.
Thus, avoid plastic anywhere over doorways/escape routes, meaning no plastic containment/cable ties/rawlplugs at all.
If that's the way forward, then wall-dogs or similar screws should be used to fasten to solid walls etc and if you go that route it's hardly worth reverting to plastic wall plugs where you can elsewhere, as that's just using 2 methods instead of one, cost aside...but the self-drilling metal screws are hardly expensive in the overall context.

 

[Strima]

Looks like resin anchors are the way ahead then.

 

[pirate]

Resin anchors? Hmm...are they not affected by heat? I've used them to tie brickwork and some other cases, but surely it's a bit fiddly and messy and time-consuming if you're just screwing some metal conduit to the brickwork?

 

[sham]

Was there any report about Grenfell firefighters struggling because of dangling cables and fixtures. I'm just saying we do not know that all this reg stuff is just for economical reasons. Why did it take so long also to create this reg. Fires in properties being going on centuries years, nobody mentioned it then.

 

[Pete999]

Was there any report about Grenfell firefighters struggling because of dangling cables and fixtures. I'm just saying we do not know that all this reg stuff is just for economical reasons. Why did it take so long also to create this reg. Fires in properties being going on centuries years, nobody mentioned it then.

Another ploy to cater for poor training and poorly trained Electricians and Installers, as with the transformation to non combustible CUs

 

[pirate]

I guess it's fair to say that fires have changed over the centuries, and the electrical installations have changed too. We used to have buildings made of brick,stone,wood and slate, but now we have all sorts of materials in there including plastics,cladding, artificial wood-based products, and of course where most buildings 50 years ago had maybe mains electricity and a telephone or two we now have multiple extra cables never envisioned before for computers, telecoms, alarms, cable and satellite TV etc etc.
Also, some of the modern building methods, where every component is designed down to a minimum, means that premature failure can occur if not installed correctly. For example, if you have a house where the ceiling and roof joist are of the engineered "I"-beam type and you drill through these to run services, they are prone to failure even without a fire. Where the upright web is typically 6 or 8mm OSB, you can't expect this to have the fire-resistant qualities of a four by two. Yes, wood burns, but solid timbers in the old style will last longer before failing...and that's just the tip of the proverbial, imho.

 

[sham]

Another ploy to cater for poor training and poorly trained Electricians and Installers, as with the transformation to non combustible CUs

Metal Domestic Consumer boards, make me nervous when taking the lid off with my hands.

 

[Pete999]

Metal Domestic Consumer boards, make me nervous when taking the lid off with my hands.

Switch em off first is the answer sham.

 

[johnduffell]

Switch em off first is the answer sham.

How do you switch off when the isolator is usually inside the board?

 

[ipf]

How do you switch off when the isolator is usually inside the board?

Who,s going to first to come out with the ‘Nervous disposition switch’, I wonder

 

[westward10]

How do you switch off when the isolator is usually inside the board?

That is a joke, yes?

 

[westward10]

Metal Domestic Consumer boards, make me nervous when taking the lid off with my hands.

Why not try your feet.

 

[johnduffell]

That is a joke, yes?

Kind of, but the serious point is how can we have metal earthed containment where the protective devices are inside. Think about rcd protection on a TT system for the worst example. Relying only on the basic protection of insulation but no fault protection is not really ideal, but without an up front RCD that's what we would do.

 

[Midwest]

For example, if you have a house where the ceiling and roof joist are of the engineered "I"-beam type and you drill through these to run services, they are prone to failure even without a fire. Where the upright web is typically 6 or 8mm OSB, you can't expect this to have the fire-resistant qualities of a four by two. Yes, wood burns, but solid timbers in the old style will last longer before failing...and that's just the tip of the proverbial, imho.

Thats why everything has always been covered in plasterboard, even before such construction; even metal RSJ's have to be covered by it.

 

[the pict]

So plastic plugs no, but plastic trunking, conduit, fast fit boxes, etc etc etc are all ok, someone is having a good old ----ing laugh at us all, and all we do is bend over further and let the scam providers shaft us,maybe we should go back to the 4 inch nail bent over cables like in the good old days

 

[DPG]

So plastic plugs no, but plastic trunking, conduit, fast fit boxes, etc etc etc are all ok, someone is having a good old ****ing laugh at us all, and all we do is bend over further and let the scam providers shaft us,maybe we should go back to the 4 inch nail bent over cables like in the good old days

But plastic trunking is only OK if metal fastenings/clips are used.

 

[Cadgey123]

Year 2025

19th Edition- Mrs Smith wants a new double sockets added in her living room.

£500 installed.

Includes the pyro, gland, new fireproof metal sockets and clips.