The use of plastic wall plugs for the 18th....

[Richard Burns]

Ally melts don't it?

at about 660 C.

Cant use aluminium then as it might be a fire 2 and the firefighters will be walking around in a 690°C temperature and may get molten aluminium dripped on them as well as being entangled in cables.

 

[snowhead]

Cant use aluminium then as it might be a fire 2 and the firefighters will be walking around in a 690°C temperature and may get molten aluminium dripped on them as well as being entangled in cables.

Now you're being Silly.
They won't be walking around in that temperature, they'll be running..

 

[Dillb]

Now you're being Silly.
They won't be walking around in that temperature, they'll be running..

Why will they be running? To keep warm!

 

[Selfmade]

I'm wondering about another couple of scenarios that don't seem to have been covered here:

- Cables in loft or basements that are only entered for building maintenance - are these spaces included in 'metal fixings must be used everywhere'?

- Cables fixed to exposed wood (e.g. skirting board, exposed ceiling timbers, or in a garden shed). Everyone seems to assume all walls are made of solid concrete which is actually rather rare in domestic settings. I have used metal clips fixed to wood and believe the wood would take longer to burn than a plastic, but I don't know how much longer or how the regs would apply to this.

 

[sham]

I forgot is it a code 2 or 3 if you doing an conditional report and there are no metal fire rated clips supporting the cables.

 

[sham]

I'm wondering about another couple of scenarios that don't seem to have been covered here:

- Cables in loft or basements that are only entered for building maintenance - are these spaces included in 'metal fixings must be used everywhere'?

- Cables fixed to exposed wood (e.g. skirting board, exposed ceiling timbers, or in a garden shed). Everyone seems to assume all walls are made of solid concrete which is actually rather rare in domestic settings. I have used metal clips fixed to wood and believe the wood would take longer to burn than a plastic, but I don't know how much longer or how the regs would apply to this.

This is why we have amendments, so they can make new book for more money. Blue, green, red, yellow etc. lol.

 

[Spoon]

Cables in loft or basements that are only entered for building maintenance - are these spaces included in 'metal fixings must be used everywhere'?

I'd go with Yes, as I presume that firefighters would have to search every room, in case of a fire.
"Sorry about the body in the basement, but as it was a maintenance area I thought there would be no one there, so we didn't search it." would not go down well..

 

[Midwest]

I'm wondering about another couple of scenarios that don't seem to have been covered here:

- Cables in loft or basements that are only entered for building maintenance - are these spaces included in 'metal fixings must be used everywhere'?

- Cables fixed to exposed wood (e.g. skirting board, exposed ceiling timbers, or in a garden shed). Everyone seems to assume all walls are made of solid concrete which is actually rather rare in domestic settings. I have used metal clips fixed to wood and believe the wood would take longer to burn than a plastic, but I don't know how much longer or how the regs would apply to this.

If the cables can't fall down because their failed, how can someone (or a fireman) become entrapped in them, thereby falling (forgive the pun) into the interpretation of said definition?

Like, hows a cable clipped to a skirting, gonna entrap a fireman?

 

[sparksburnout]

What about when the AMD3 board is screwed to a couple of wooden battens then? Do the battens have to have fireproof fixings?

 

[telectrix]

simple solution.... issue all firefighters with a pair of these:

 

[netblindpaul]

simple solution.... issue all firefighters with a pair of these:

They already have, and modified the BA & helmets to minimise this risk, the Coroner came down hard on the Fire & Rescue services & the electrical industry.

 

[Selfmade]

I'd go with Yes, as I presume that firefighters would have to search every room, in case of a fire.
"Sorry about the body in the basement, but as it was a maintenance area I thought there would be no one there, so we didn't search it." would not go down well..

Interesting point, but I wonder whether in practice firefighters crawl through basements so small they cannot bend their knees, in burning buildings, on the one-in-a-million chance there is someone in there. If not, then where is the cut-off?

 

[Selfmade]

I'd go with Yes, as I presume that firefighters would have to search every room, in case of a fire.
"Sorry about the body in the basement, but as it was a maintenance area I thought there would be no one there, so we didn't search it." would not go down well..

Interesting point, but I wonder whether in practice firefighters crawl through basements so small they cannot bend their knees, in burning buildings, on the one-in-a-million chance there is someone in

If the cables can't fall down because their failed, how can someone (or a fireman) become entrapped in them, thereby falling (forgive the pun) into the interpretation of said definition?

Like, hows a cable clipped to a skirting, gonna entrap a fireman?

OK bad example on my part, maybe a cable clipped to a dado rail (if anyone's ever done that)? That said, I don't think cables clipped to skirtings are excluded, unless the cables are actually supported by the floor. Perhaps a cable falling away from a skirting could at least become a trip hazard?

 

[Selfmade]

Here are the clips and raw plugs I have been using in escape routes - looks like I'll be getting through more of these:

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/d-lin...ps-for-2-core-1-5mm-fp-cable-pack-of-12/90366

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/prysmian-ap9-white-clips-pack-of-100/33690

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/rawlplug-metal-wall-plugs-6-x-32mm-50-pack/9584p

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/fischer-self-drill-plasterboard-fixings-metal-35mm-100-pack/47347

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/rawlplug-hollow-wall-anchors-m5-x-37mm-20-pack/99201

Hopefully this will be useful for someone. I'm not getting commission for these links (boo). Doubtless other manufacturers and suppliers will have similar offerings.

 

[Midwest]

Thats all quite old hat, used for different reasons nothing to do with premature failure due to fire.

 

[Richard Burns]

I think the self drive plasterboard fixings are made from an alloy so they may well melt too early as well. Though I do not know the alloy used.
The metal wall plugs are probably the simplest but would have really too great a sideways force for weak substrates and could readily shatter the wall.
Presumably someone will come up with a product like the D line clips, vastly overpriced and annoying.

 

[Selfmade]

I think the self drive plasterboard fixings are made from an alloy so they may well melt too early as well. Though I do not know the alloy used.
The metal wall plugs are probably the simplest but would have really too great a sideways force for weak substrates and could readily shatter the wall.
Presumably someone will come up with a product like the D line clips, vastly overpriced and annoying.

Interesting. Perhaps we need some clarification about which metals are suitable and how we identify them.

It's also occurred to me that perhaps fixing cables to plasterboard is not acceptable from a fire resistance point of view. The regs already say a light must be fixed to the joists or similar to avoid the plasterboard giving way in the event of a fire burning off the paper - perhaps the same should go for cables, but I don't remember seeing this on my initial look at the changed regs. Roll on amendment 1 :-D

 

[davesparks]

The regs already say a light must be fixed to the joists or similar to avoid the plasterboard giving way in the event of a fire burning off the paper -

Do they? Which regulation is that?

 

[sunray]

Do any of you old geezers out there remember ALEX plugs in the 70's. They were an aluminium rawlplug an always gave you a solid fixing - much better than the plastic ones. Perhaps they are the solution to this problem.

Yes I most certainly do and stupidly made a mistake when I ordered the last batch. I wrote 1000 on the order against each of 4 sizes along with various sizes of screws and no one questioned the quantity. The delivery was made, the invoice sent and account paid, all 3 being done in their usual efficient manner. Imagine my surprise when I next went to the shelf and found 28 boxes containing 144 boxes each of 200 alex plugs on the floor where I expected to see 20 small boxes on the shelf. Weirdly there were only 5 boxes of each size of screw delivered.
Now the question of closing down the branch cropped up a short while later and by the stroke of a pen, guys with clipboards decided there was no stock worth the cost of moving to another branch and I got the job to arrange skips and disposal. 41 years later I probably still have 25% of them as I'm slowing down towards retirement.

 

[Selfmade]

Do they? Which regulation is that?

Just checked and they don't . What they do say (to paraphrase and abbreviate) is that adequate means to fix shall be provided, capable of supporting not less that 5kg, and installed in accordance with manufacturer's instructions. I'd question the ability of plasterboard to support 5kG with any form of raw plug (perhaps others can correct me), and I know at least some manufacturers' instructions specify fixing to joists or other timber rather than plasterboard. Where I have read that this is to avoid the plasterboard giving way in the event of a fire burning off the paper, I couldn't tell you.