Thoughts about early 1960's wiring methods .... please

[Octopus]

All,

Just got in from fault finding a house with a RCD tripping issue ....... it clear cut which circuit is the problem as its almost a dead short L-E

The issue is more about understanding the installation methods used around 1960 ..... the end to end readings for the live and neutral are around 0.15 so that suggests a very short ring - but the ring serves nearly all the sockets in the older part of the house .....

When looking to split the ring, early all the sockets are either 1 cable or 1 old cable and 1 newer cable (and then a socket with the newer cable is close by) which suggests that I'm going to have to start lifting floorboards.........

So my question is was there any "standard" way of achieving such a circuit ... which would make locating the junction boxes easier?

I think I can spot all the "original" sockets as they are just above the skirting board ......

There was 1 point I couldn't access:



This is the immersion switch , on the same circuit, completely covered by the megaflow tank installed about 7 years ago .................. Mr Wet Pants - why didn't you relocate the switch to the right?

 

[Pete999]

Rings were Rings the same as now, as was the lighting, although central JB were used a lot in lighting circuits.

Sockets spurred from a Ring, the electricians would often locate a Ring 7/029 (2.5mm2) and splice a 30Amp JB ( Not the Wago junk, proper JBs) in the leg without cutting the cable, in some cases this was done whilst the Ring was still live, (an art which I excelled at as well, and never got a belt) if you pay my travel I'll come and show you how to do it.

Cookers were a radial as were water heaters most of the time, buckle clips were the norm, another art which I also became proficient, could show you how to do that as well, providing you can still get hold of the clips and the pins.

 

[Octopus]

hum .... but this isn't a ring with 2 cables at each socket.

The 1970's houses on our estate have a ring around the first floor and all the downstairs sockets are spurs ....... except the kitchens

 

[Richard Burns]

It is a bit late in time but it could be a spider ring, a loop of cable from the fuse run around the area in the floor and then a junction box with a single cable out to a socket for each socket location.
Then you have a short ring and each socket has one cable to it?

 

[Octopus]

Yup - that's probably how it was done (nice graphic btw) ............. so where would they locate the junction boxes?

I'm thinking about lifting the boards directly below the sockets ............. so lots of furniture and carpets to move ..............

 

[Pete999]

Never actually did that, but knew it was being done that way, my Boss was a stickler for doingaring the normal way.

When I was in the USSR rewiring the staff flats, supervising the the Russian Electricians, the Spidder ring was their preferred method, although we were using UK accessories and cable it was their country, so I decided not to insist on a proper RFC, happy days indeed some good Tradesmen.

 

[Pete999]

Yup - that's probably how it was done (nice graphic btw) ............. so where would they locate the junction boxes?

I'm thinking about lifting the boards directly below the sockets ............. so lots of furniture and carpets to move ..............

Al the joys of locating JBs, your guess is as good as everyone elses mate, look for disturbed floor boards, proper Electricians would mark the trap where a JB was located, nowadys, just bang the joint in a Wago box and sling it under the floor somewhere, no one will ever know, that is until something goes wrong, Maintenance free my bottom

 

[Octopus]

nowadays, just bang the joint in a Wago box and sling it under the floor somewhere, no one will ever know, that is until something goes wrong, Maintenance free my bottom

Not everybody uses such appalling methods ................ if a connection HAS to be inaccessible then Hager MF boxes every time..........

 

[Pete999]

Not everybody uses such appalling methods ................ if a connection HAS to be inaccessible then Hager MF boxes every time..........

My post was partialy in jest Mate, but you have to agree, there are some that think MF means precisely how I described a MF joint in my previous post, I guess I will agree with you on that one, probably an age issue, with me being increasingly near to being past it.

 

[Richard Burns]

It all depends on how they ran the original loop of cable, I am fairly sure I had one that just went up and back down the center of the house floor and then the cable spread out to the sides for each spur so the junction boxes were in a centre line.
Preferably you might run the loop around the edges of the floor and spider short spurs to each socket.
However I would say that the junction boxes should be in line with the sockets, it is just how far under the floor they are.
If you measure the resistance, with the ring out of the board, between line and earth carefully at each socket then the lowest resistance should be the one closest to the fault, if you are lucky and if the difference is measurable on the meter and if there are no high resistance joints...
Good luck.

 

[FatAlan]

The project I’m living in at the moment appears to have one RFC run under upstairs floorboards. Down stairs sockets drop down on spurs from upstairs sockets.

 

[Squid]

Maintenance free years back and still today in some cases was a connector block with the earths twisted together externaly and two laps of insulation tape.

 

[Pete999]

The project I’m living in at the moment appears to have one RFC run under upstairs floorboards. Down stairs sockets drop down on spurs from upstairs sockets.

In those days Al it was all down to the Electrician and his Boss how they did the wiring, luckily I was taught by a proper electrician, may he rest in peace.

 

[Squid]

I was taught by a proper electrician, may he rest in peace.

Electrocuted or old age?

 

[ipf]

In those days Al it was all down to the Electrician and his Boss how they did the wiring, luckily I was taught by a proper electrician, may he rest in peace.

I'll echo that, mate.....th'owd fella's still kicking, though

 

[camerabloke]

Both

 

[Pete999]

I'll echo that, mate.....th'owd fella's still kicking, though

My mentor passed away far to early

 

[Andy78]

My brother's house was wired in a spider ring. The ring ran round the upstairs sockets and each downstairs socket was a spur that was chased down from above.

 

[MDJ]

The rings back then were Jamaican ring mains, a ring run around the house and JBs connected to the rings in several places. Then radial circuits connected to the ring mains.

 

[MDJ]

My brother's house was wired in a spider ring. The ring ran round the upstairs sockets and each downstairs socket was a spur that was chased down from above.

Yep, and believe it or not they were called Jamaican Ring mains Andy