Thoughts on distribution board upgrade

[Gazthesparky]

Got called out to a hairdressers yesterday after they were receiving shocks from a hair straiteners

Got there to find a single phase consumer unit no RCDs in site and no main earth or bonding at all

So remedy that by putting a temp earth rod in and bonding to water and gas

I have said that it requires a distribution board upgrade and RCDs installed on the shower and socket circuits. As the exsisting consumer unit is a mess

There is a 3phase supply and a 3 phase meter so the customer is being charged for the supply.

They have just lifted the brown phase out of the 3phase isolator and fitted a single phase consumer unit.

Should I keep the supply and quote to install a 3phase distribution board and split the circuits over the 3 phases

Or seeing as the customer isn't using the supply tell them and go down the root of getting the meter changed and upgrading the single phase consumer unit

What would you do ??

 

[dingledong]

I think I would go for the 3 phase board route myself , but you can only give the customer the options and let them choose

 

[Farmelectrics]

why did you install an earth rod what is the earthing arrangement is tns tnc-s

 

[Pete999]

I would go for a three phase board, but like farmelectrics, why the earth rod??

 

[Knobhead]

Why a new board? Can't an up front RCD be fitted?

 

[Gazthesparky]

The earth rod was a temp fix I already had it on the van and it was just easier and quicker to put the rod in. I am going to contact the energy company to check earthing arrangement and get them to provide an earth for the property if there's one available. Didn't think the energy company would come out within the hour to provide an earth point.

Don't want to put a front end RCD in because you won't get discrimination and limitation of loss of supply.

The old board is a mess I could fit 5 rcbos into the board but at 30 quid a pop it seems a expensive bodge

Think I will go down the 3phase dis board route leaves the 3phase supply and split the circuits over the 3 phases

Thanks for the opinions

 

[Octopus]

Why 5 rcbos? Surely 2 Will do and a far better option than an upfront rcd

 

[Engineer54]

Most hairdressing salons get by more than quite adequately with a single phase supply. What i would advise the occupier to do, is get the DNO or provider to change the 3 phase meter for a single phase unit because as sure as eggs are eggs, they are being charged a higher rate standing charge.

If the CU is in that bad a condition, then advise them to change it out with an up to date RCD protected CU. Then it's just waiting to find out if the DNO can provide an earth terminal or not, (you may well have to create a permanent TT earthing arrangement). Whatever happens you'll still need to provide main bonding connection(s) to the MET....

 

[brucelee]

If they only have 5 circuits they don't really need 3 phase depending on load, also they are probably being charged extra standing charges for 3 phases like 3 standing charges

Have you worked out the load that will tell you if you need single or 3 phase, if single get the Supplier to replace saving your customer in standing charges and get them to provide a earthing facility at same time if possible if not go the TT route

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Got called out to a hairdressers yesterday after they were receiving shocks from a hair straiteners

Got there to find a single phase consumer unit no RCDs in site and no main earth or bonding at all

So remedy that by putting a temp earth rod in and bonding to water and gas

I have said that it requires a distribution board upgrade and RCDs installed on the shower and socket circuits. As the exsisting consumer unit is a mess

There is a 3phase supply and a 3 phase meter so the customer is being charged for the supply.

They have just lifted the brown phase out of the 3phase isolator and fitted a single phase consumer unit.

Should I keep the supply and quote to install a 3phase distribution board and split the circuits over the 3 phases

Or seeing as the customer isn't using the supply tell them and go down the root of getting the meter changed and upgrading the single phase consumer unit

What would you do ??

Did you do an IR test?......If there is a voltage appearing on equipment there is likely a fault. Putting a (probable) high resistance rod in which wont help ADS without the assistance of an RCD may result in a dangerous situation remaining......after you have attended.

 

[Jdsparky]

Sounds like he's only got 5 circuits so hardly worth putting a three phase db in just go rcbo option best all round and be done with it.

 

[Gazthesparky]

Did you do an IR test?......If there is a voltage appearing on equipment there is likely a fault. Putting a (probable) high resistance rod in which wont help ADS without the assistance of an RCD may result in a dangerous situation remaining......after you have attended.

There are 9 circuits altogether in the property but only 5 need RCD coverage
2 showers
3 ring mains
3 internal light circuits
1 outside light circuit.

I tested the earth rod and insulation residence tested the ring circuits no fault found

I then looked at the appliance that they were using and the cable was damaged and hence a live cable was exposed.

I have since removed the appliance from service and also recommended pat testing their appliances as they are all out of date.

So 9 circuits 5 RCD covered ones.

I know they will be paying for a higher tariff because they are being charged for 3 phase.

The loading isn't that high so single phase would suffice, I just didn't know if it was worth the bother of informing the customer and getting the meter changed ect.

I might attempt to speak to the customer and inform them it will be cheaper if they do change to single phase metering.



Thanks for your opinions

 

[Knobhead]

So you found a damaged flex, due to that you recommended a new DB ? ? ? ?

How long has this place been running with the present set up?

No wonder electricians get a bad reputation.

 

[davesparks]

Congratulations you have identified a faulty appliance! You may now put a red pat fail sticker on it

Oh and you're paying too much for your RCBOs if they are £30 each, reasonable SPSN RCBOs can be had for £16 each!

 

[GMES]

The earth rod was a temp fix I already had it on the van and it was just easier and quicker to put the rod in. I am going to contact the energy company to check earthing arrangement and get them to provide an earth for the property if there's one available. Didn't think the energy company would come out within the hour to provide an earth point.

Don't want to put a front end RCD in because you won't get discrimination and limitation of loss of supply.

The old board is a mess I could fit 5 rcbos into the board but at 30 quid a pop it seems a expensive bodge

Think I will go down the 3phase dis board route leaves the 3phase supply and split the circuits over the 3 phases

Thanks for the opinions

I had the same problem on a call out about 5 weeks ago , so I rang Northern power and they were out within 15 minutes and sorted it and that was a Saturday morning!

 

[Gazthesparky]

So you found a damaged flex, due to that you recommended a new DB ? ? ? ?

How long has this place been running with the present set up?

No wonder electricians get a bad reputation.

No now that's not nice and I pride myself on offering a good honest service!!!!!

If you read the post you will see

I got called to look why someone was receiving a shock

I identified it was a faulty appliance if that was the end of it I would of removed it from service and end of.

I then looked and all their items were out of date by 2 years so I suggested they get them pat tested to help manage risks like this.

I wondered why an RCD hadn't tripped so went to look at the consumer unit to find that there was no RCDs on anything looked a bit further and saw no bonding on the water or gas then thought I that's strange I see no main earth connection so decided to open up the consumer unit where a rats nest of wires appeared and there was no main earth in sight.

I installed a rod and main bonding as a temp measure. I meggered the rings to check for faults and recommended they have RCDs on the 2 shower circuits and the 3 socket circuits. I have priced up rcbos for the existing consumer unit and best I can get is 30 quid each so 5x30 is 150 so it's getting expensive to muddle through with the exsisting

They have a 3phase supply and meter and whoever installed it just linked off one phase so I was mearly asking for opinions as to what people thought

A. replace the single phase board keeping it single phase and getting the meter changed

Or

B. keep the 3phase supply and put a nice 3 phase board in splitting the circuits over the 3 phase and installing rcbos on the circuit. This means they are ready to go should they expand and have sun beds for example as it's a hair and beauty salon

I don't see how my advice is going to give electricians or cirtainly me a bad name.

And I'm just at the quoting stage for the moment I just could t decide which route to go down.

 

[Gazthesparky]

Congratulations you have identified a faulty appliance! You may now put a red pat fail sticker on it

Oh and you're paying too much for your RCBOs if they are £30 each, reasonable SPSN RCBOs can be had for £16 each!

I did got my red stickers out the van lol

And I have priced up proteus rcbos from cef at 30 quid each that's the best price I've been quoted when I went in there. I don't hold an account with them so I guess that's why I don't normally pay that for rcbos just the exsisting board is proteus

 

[Engineer54]

I did got my red stickers out the van lol

And I have priced up proteus rcbos from cef at 30 quid each that's the best price I've been quoted when I went in there. I don't hold an account with them so I guess that's why I don't normally pay that for rcbos just the exsisting board is proteus

Well that's another good valid reason to change out the CU!! lol!!

 

[Fox]

Proteus equipment sucks! But I suppose sometimes you've got to play the best game with what you're dealt!

 

[Andy78]

Proteus equipment sucks! But I suppose sometimes you've got to play the best game with what you're dealt!

Proteus ? I fold, deal me again.