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Discuss Thoughts on this earthing at cut out..... in the Electrical Forum area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. Gavin John Hyde
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    Gavin John Hyde Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Somerset
    Business Name:
    Sulis Electrical Services Ltd
    On a job this evening just taking a look around and meeting customer as wants downstairs rewired.
    Only collecting keys before i go back and do a few tests and quote fully.
    Appears at sometime to have been TNS but changed to PME?
    Instead of earth and Neutral joining in the cut out. They are joined in a Henley.
    Is this permissable?
    First thought was no. But more I think about it. What difference does it make so long as they join - be it in cutout or henley a few inches later?
    Thoughts?

    Images show earthing in henley going behind board to CU.
    Old bonding strap fixed to outer sheath!!
    Cut out without earth going in the side. On closer examination it appears there is a small hole, presumably for the earthing but has lack of access.

    20190415_190634.jpg

    20190415_190630.jpg

    20190415_190646.jpg
     
  2. TJ Anderson
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    TJ Anderson Forum Mentor

    Location:
    Derby
    That looks like a non-DNO TNCS. Also that BS951 clamp should have never been used for TNS earthing conductor, crushing the cable.
     
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  3. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    It does look a bit homemade ...
     
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  4. Dustydazzler
    Online

    Dustydazzler Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Surrey
  5. Gavin John Hyde
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    Gavin John Hyde Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Somerset
    Business Name:
    Sulis Electrical Services Ltd
    Agree on the BS951 clamp used for TNS. it certainly looks like a improvised PME set up. but is it compliant? I will test the readings later in week when I go back. might have to get WPD out to give once over.
     
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  6. TJ Anderson
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    TJ Anderson Forum Mentor

    Location:
    Derby
    Thing is you won't really know if it is. You will have a low impedance loop L-N & L-E, most likely less than 0.35 ohms Ze, but is it really TNCS? Could have a look in neighbours house if poss, see if they have a TNCS cutout. Should definitely get DNO out to look at that.
     
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  7. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    I've sent in special pics like this to local DNO a few times and they will do a free "safety check" if they feel it's warranted.
     
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  8. lemonkettaz
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    lemonkettaz Active EF Member

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    If it’s TNS will be different readings L-E and L-N being separate conductors whereras TNCS would give exact same readings as it’s the same conductor ?
     
  9. Gavin John Hyde
    Offline

    Gavin John Hyde Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Somerset
    Business Name:
    Sulis Electrical Services Ltd
    Just got off phone with customer, he is going to contact WPD the local DNO and get them to send an engineer out to check it and give once over.
     
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  10. TJ Anderson
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    TJ Anderson Forum Mentor

    Location:
    Derby
    Yeah, you get same readings as they are supplied by same conductor. The issue is, this is using the dedicated neutral of the old TNS as a PEN conductor when it may not actually be one...
     
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  11. DefyG
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    DefyG Regular EF Member

    Location:
    South East
    Got the DNO out on a job last year with too high Ze reading for a TNS and the remedy? - They did exactly as shown by Gavin's pics!
    So not necessarily a DIY PME!
     
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  12. Which One’s Live?
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    Which One’s Live? EF Member

    Location:
    London
    Is it a secondary cutout? That's where I've generally seen this done, especially when they are a few neutrals to combine, so the cutout is effectively extended using a block. But even then, I've not seen an earth thrown in there ad-hoc.

    Anyway, there's only one neutral so I'm probably wrong.
     
  13. Gavin John Hyde
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    Gavin John Hyde Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Somerset
    Business Name:
    Sulis Electrical Services Ltd
    No secondary cutout. It comes in from outside. To immediate left is the front door.
     
  14. DefyG
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    DefyG Regular EF Member

    Location:
    South East
    Ditto, primary cutout.
     
  15. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Regular EF Member

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    Of course in the regs the use of neutral and earth combined is not permitted within the installation. But technically I guess it is not within the installation it is prior to the meter and within the responsibility of the DNO. I do know of electricians that do not hesitate to do their own PME like this so yes it may be a diy. Update us @Gavin John Hyde@Gavin John Hyde when they look.
     
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