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Hi folks, I'm in the process of adding some more sockets into my "Socket" ring circuit. My plan was to open up the existing socket, cut 1 twin and earth higher up and add a socket there, leave the other twin and earth where it is then do a small ring of 4 sockets, starting at the existing socket and ending at the new socket higher up.
My problem is that having opened up the existing socket, it's actually not twin and earth, it's just the separate cores installed in some metal conduit which goes up into the ceiling! (i.e. 2 live, 2 neutral and 2 earth all in the one metal conduit/pipe)
So, I have 2 questions:
1. Does anyone have any idea how to work out which cables belong to which set?
2. Is it likely to actually cause a problem if I end up having a live from one side and neutral from the other?

Here is a photo of what I mean:
Unable to separate wires on ring circuit electrical-conduit - EletriciansForums.net
 
Yes, That is the "new socket higher up" I was referring to. The cable goes through that socket down to the existing socket at the moment.
 
You have some issues here. I assume you have cut that tube away from the old socket back box and hence there may be a possibility it is no longer earthed. Those wires you now have exposed in the wall require suitable enclosure in conduit you cannot leave them as they are.
 
The original socket didn't actually have any earthing point on it, I would assume that the conduit is already earthed.
Anyway, this setup is only temporary, the idea is that half of the wires will end up in this socket and the other half will continue to run through it down to the existing socket (which is actually a new backbox too). My problem is that I don't know how to split the lives, neutrals and earths.
 
The conduit may well still be earthed or it was earthed by connection to the existing back box. Temporary or not those wires require suitable enclosure. It will be inappropriate to give you advice on how to connect the new socket while you have those wires exposed.
 
You have some issues here. I assume you have cut that tube away from the old socket back box and hence there may be a possibility it is no longer earthed. Those wires you now have exposed in the wall require suitable enclosure in conduit you cannot leave them as they are.
Andy you need to get an Electrician involved in this project before you do someone a mischief.
 
This is a very simple job if you know what you are doing...

those cables look awfully tight and also you can't just leave singles in the wall like this , you need a coupler or something to protect the cables
 
as previous posts. this method of installation is beyond the scope of DIY and/or short course "domestic imbeciles installers". you need an old school sparks to do the job safe.
 
The other thing to look at is what the conduit is attached to (if anything) up in the ceiling void.
I have worked in older houses that were rewired in the say 1970s/80s and the conduit has all but been butchered leaving just short lengths down for the drops.
If the conduit going up/down is just flapping in the wind you could potentially replace with pvc tube
 
Yes, I understand that the conduit may have been the earth. there were no connections from the existing cables the original socket. I sent this photo because this is where I got to and got stuck. I'm not using the sockets like this, the room isn't even in use.
The circuit is indeed a ring.
I was going to simply separate the cables so that one set goes into this socket (which would then be earthed) and the other set goes into the existing socket below (which would also be earthed).
I have metal trunking to go over all exposed cables, to avoid them being drilled into, but I haven't fitted it yet in this area due to it not being finished.
 
How do you intend to reconnect the conduit to your new back box. The wires from the bottom of the new box need containing in conduit not trunking.
 
The other thing to look at is what the conduit is attached to (if anything) up in the ceiling void.
I have worked in older houses that were rewired in the say 1970s/80s and the conduit has all but been butchered leaving just short lengths down for the drops.
If the conduit going up/down is just flapping in the wind you could potentially replace with pvc tube
Doubt if that is the case DD, as it's wired in singles. mind you stranger things have happened.
 
You definetly need the conduit to meet the back box basic Insulation will not do the job
 
Ok, well, assuming that I cut off some of the excess conduit so that I can put it in and make sure it touches the backbox, perhaps by welding, what should I do next?
 
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Yes, I understand that the conduit may have been the earth. there were no connections from the existing cables the original socket. I sent this photo because this is where I got to and got stuck. I'm not using the sockets like this, the room isn't even in use.
The circuit is indeed a ring.
I was going to simply separate the cables so that one set goes into this socket (which would then be earthed) and the other set goes into the existing socket below (which would also be earthed).
I have metal trunking to go over all exposed cables, to avoid them being drilled into, but I haven't fitted it yet in this area due to it not being finished.

That conduit needs to be extended so that it connects to the back box. A conduit needs to be installed between the two back boxes for those single core cables to be run through. It must be a proper conduit to enclose the cables, ideally steel, not any sort of capping or partial covering.

What you are currently doing does not comply with the wiring regulations and is creating a potentially dangerous situation which could to you or anyone else in the property being injured or killed at a later date.
 
How did he cut the conduit and not the singles as well :)

I’d go with the advice and get someone in, Andy.
 

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