Understandable attitude?

[Andy78]

Ah well, we'll just agree to differ then

Aye, after all it's Saturday night. Get yourself off to the pub where you can tell the landlord how to pull a pint

 

[NDG Elecs]

It's a shame the works are done and not pending. I could have bought his copy of the 18th off him for half price!

 

[NDG Elecs]

DIY gas work is not permitted. Electrical should be the same.
Everybody tries to do something they are not qualified to do. And I must admit I have tried just about everything. (gas included, but that was LPG, and on a barbeque)
Try to be a joiner, cut a bit of wood short, or offline, and the worse is it doesn't look good.
Try to be a decorator. Paint is a messy business. worst case is it doesn't look good.
Even a plumber. Do it wrong, and you can get a little wet.

Gas engineer. Have to be gassafe registered. have to be trained and qualified. Do that wrong and there could be an almighty bang one day

Electricians are well trained, even more so than gas engineers. There should be a register for all qualified sparks such as gassafe.
Get this wrong, and there could be a bang. or not. Electricity is silent. It sneaks up on you and grabs you from behind.

We are trained to do the work and TEST it afterwards, to ensure the end user will be safe. Some members on this forum can be quick to criticise DIY work, and perhaps rightly so. They have had years of coming across DIY bodge jobs and having to fix them.

I am sure the OP's friend has done the work to the best of his ability. However, without proper testing, it is nothing

I tried to be a rally driver once....that didn't end well

 

[static zap]

I tried to be a rally driver once....that didn't end well

Topical ... cutting corners is a gamble.
( depends who is in the house/car )
And sleeping with the possible consequences !

 

[Percyprod]

At the end of the day, it's up to the individual. It's illegal to do gas work unless you are gas Safe or what ever they call it niw, but you can still buy all the gear and do it yourself, most people wouldn't. The same would apply to electrics. Can you think of a law that isn't broken, how many do you break? It doesn't matter to you other than financially. I will never accept that an amateur can't do as good a job as a professional, but of course not always, and believe it or not some even know how to test an installation, after all can't be that difficult, you lot do it!

 

[Leesparkykent]

At the end of the day, it's up to the individual. It's illegal to do gas work unless you are gas Safe or what ever they call it niw, but you can still buy all the gear and do it yourself, most people wouldn't. The same would apply to electrics. Can you think of a law that isn't broken, how many do you break? It doesn't matter to you other than financially. I will never accept that an amateur can't do as good a job as a professional, but of course not always, and believe it or not some even know how to test an installation, after all can't be that difficult, you lot do it!

no I don't believe you at all ....This thread is posted by your alter ego before I banned it New Shower installation help - https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/new-shower-installation-help.124165/#post-1320222 I'd seriously consider giving up if I was you.

 

[Percyprod]

Aw shucks! Well, I suppose it's back to my crayons at the Carlisle home for the Criminally Wired. I've not been the same since they did away with yellow and red. You have to admit I've made some valid points though.

 

[Andy78]

You've made no valid points that you have defended in any reasonable or intelligent manner in light of the valid points brought up by electricians questing your views. You have merely skirted them in favour of repeating yourself and providing suspect information about the installation in question.

In short, you're full of it.

 

[The Ghost]

Time for a new alter ego then @Percyprod your credibility is destroyed now. Personally I think it's @Rpa07 who is behind this. I think work is slack for him at the moment.

 

[Toneyz]

can't be that difficult, you lot do it!

Whilst I was going to comment regarding another member posting about another member burning to death due to their wiring which I thought was a despicable thing to post, I agree with the first part of your post but had to mark as dumb due to the total insult above.

 

[johnduffell]

To be honest although the op is not quite there yet, I rewired oro place myself and I can see where he's coming from although he has a few unanswered questions and is being defensive rather than open.
Although I'm not qualified at all, I spent some time researching, bought a book on domestic wiring, another on I&t. Then I asked questions until to make sure I didn't get flamed for not knowing anything!
Then I get the dno to replace their iron age cutout and the supplier to add an isolator switch then I set to work.
The main areas of uncertainty were that I bought out of calibration test equipment and I had to make my own tests up to check them. Which was not possible for the rcd tester.
Also I didn't have the experience to know the best way to split into circuits etc. I think I ended up with a few too many.
Is it safer? No one can say for sure, but the previous I dated to the late 70s (t&e but no green goo, wood framed wylex board in brown, earthed lighting circuits) plus plenty of DIY bodges and high loop ratings on both rings. Low it on the ground floor ring due to damp jbs under the floor. Random exposed chock blocks removed. No water bond.
Now it all tests out correctly, everything is still in safe zones, RCD protection. I'm happy that it's safer.
Also bearing in mind not all professionals in any field get it right all the time. I've counteracted my extra chance of making a mistake by thinking harder about it. Would a pro have done a better job? Good question. If it was someone on this forum, yes, because you lot are here to further your experience and care about the trade. But I've seen electricians who just want the money (you call them Electrical Trainee right?)

I do pay a highly recommended relative of a friend of a colleague to service the car. Last time he left the maf unplugged and the air filter box disconnected from the manifold, and told me the check engine light was on because the MAf was getting to the end of its life and would probably need replaced soon. He had replaced a bulb in that area. When I got home I realised it was all half disconnected and put it back, then when I asked him he swore blind sometimes there's a back pressure in old cars and it causes such an explosion that it pops it all apart. So yes it's sometimes worth spending the weekend doing a service yourself to save 40 quid.

Not trying to wind anyone else up, just two sides of the coin.

 

[Midwest]

The main areas of uncertainty were that I bought out of calibration test equipment and I had to make my own tests up to check them. Which was not possible for the rcd tester.

I do pay a highly recommended relative of a friend of a colleague to service the car.

So yes it's sometimes worth spending the weekend doing a service yourself to save 40 quid.

I would put the £40 you saved servicing your car, to having your test equipment professionally calibrated. Not sure what tests you could devise, to ensure its calibrated correctly, not withstanding I use Calcard etc monthly, to ensure my devise hasn't varied from original calibration. If it did, it would go back for a professional calibration.

I pay for my car to be serviced at a garage I'm happy with. They have all the necessary equipment, expertise & tools and access to manufacturers database. Might cost a lot more, but I can spend my weekends, wasting my time on forums.

I stopped messing around with engines, after I used to de-coke my Fizzy Mop with a flat screwdriver.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It’s not illegal to do gas work unless you are gas safe.
It’s illegal to do gas work for remuneration unless you are gas safe.
So if I or someone else decided to install, service or repair our own boiler, it would not be illegal unless something went wrong.

 

[johnduffell]

Not sure what tests you could devise, to ensure its calibrated correctly, not withstanding

Ze tester was by comparison with the dno surveyor's one and the guys changing the cutout, that covered around 0.25 to 1.2 ohms range.
The low ohms tester I did with a couple of cable reels and calculated the expected, and the it by some high value resistors.
The RCD tester I'm stumped though, but I'm less concerned about that. It's the timing aspect that makes it hard. I could probably test it with an oscilloscope if I had one.

 

[johnduffell]

So if I or someone else decided to install, service or repair our own boiler, it would not be illegal unless something went wrong.

They actually use the word competent, so assuming your definition of competent is that nothing went wrong, then I agree.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

They actually use the word competent, so assuming your definition of competent is that nothing went wrong, then I agree.

If something did go wrong, that would be a pretty clear indication of incompetence.

 

[johnduffell]

If something did go wrong, that would be a pretty clear indication of incompetence.

Correct, but your post suggested the opposite also applies, ie that if nothing goes wrong, that indicates competence. I am not sure that quite follows.

 

[pirate]

Not sure if I should dip a toe in here...
I have done plumbing for over 40 years, as a DIYer...it's not difficult to do, but it seems nowadays , like with electricians, you can call in a fully qualified plumber and end up with a bodge. Just because someone has a qualification noes not guarantee that they are going to do a good job every single time. Surgeons don't always get it right...
Give a man a pair of rigger boots and a nail gun, and he's a builder...give a man a length of polypipe and some push-fits, and he's a plumber...NOT!
I have been so fed up with the few professionals I have employed in very recent years that I have reverted to doing everything I can do, myself, but with limits. At the end of a heating and hot water system is a gas boiler...I don't touch that. At the end of my electrical installation is a CU, and I won't touch that (well, hardly!) However, TESTING is a job for those with the correct equipment and the knowledge to use it...I don't touch that either..gas or electricity. I can check a circuit is dead before, say, adding a spur, or replacing a lighting circuit, and consider my work to be safe, but for anything more I need expert assistance. I used to do gas stuff too, in the leisure marine sector...it's not rocket science working on small bore and a LPG gas bottle, and testing is easy...but a modern combi boiler? I haven't a clue.
My view therefore is that some folks can do a fine job, qualified or not, but the important aspects like testing for safety are the preserve of those properly qualified and equipped for the task.
Of minor amusement, a few years ago I had my boiler serviced by a proper engineer who came highly recommended. The house was in a state as we were renovating it completely. The gas man complimented the neat electrics and aked who had done it. I confessed, and he offered me a job helping him and his (electrician) brother with basic installations...a Saturday and Sunday shift, cash in hand...I may have been slightly chuffed, but really? I wonder what "standard" his brother works to...

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I always though the meaning of competence was being able to do something successfully or efficiently?

 

[johnduffell]

I always though the meaning of competence was being able to do something successfully or efficiently?

I'm not disagreeing, but as a counter exampleexam sure we've all seen "accidents waiting to happen" that have been there many years and nothing went wrong, but had a few choice words to say about the incompetent/diyer who was responsible!