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Discuss Vans, diesel engines & DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER (DPF) in the Electrical Forum area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. Midwest
    Online

    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    This subject has been mentioned before (wirepuller talked of it), but it won't hurt to mention it again (Fawlty Tower Style!) for those thinking of a new van (or car).

    I've been looking for a new used vehicle; was thinking of getting some sort of Chelsea tractor, one of which was a Discovery Sport (DS). After reading about it on a particular forum, it appears to have an issue with the above.

    To meet Euro 6 emissions (I'll stand to be technically corrected), a DPF is used to trap some of the nasty stuff. In the DS's case, its a bit of a challenge, and requires some mileage driven at a certain speed to do so (as do most such vehicles). Put in a short journey when it is attempting a regeneration, and turning off the car dumps some fuel in the sump, causing another issue, oil dilution.

    Too many failed regenerations, will require vehicle servicing or even possibly repairs. The oil dilution is another problem.

    So those buying/leasing new diesel vans would be ok, if they do some mileage, those doing short journeys might wish to reconsider the fuel choice for their new vehicle.

    This guy had to sign a waver when purchasing a new diesel Ford Connect (Zedman);

    Service interval - Page 222 - Discovery Sport Forums - https://www.discosportforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5379&start=2210
     
  2. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    one of the many reasons that i look after my 2004 hiace. it'll last me out and is big enough to cart my mortal remains to the council tip.
     
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  3. Tes369
    Online

    Tes369 Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Cumbria
    All diesels with DPF's will eventually go wrong unless blasted down the motorway your engine needs to be at over 2500 rpm for at least 20 mins so the DPF can go through its clean cycle. Otherwise they get blocked with soot, crud and stop working.

    * if your just pottering around local *Do not buy a diesel*.

    * I'd say they need blasting up motorway or duel carriageway at least once a week for over 20mins think of it as cleaning your car. You will notice the difference after should be smoother more responsive and quieter. Diesels respect you for thrashing them once in a while.

    * All my vehicles have been diesel. Nothing wrong with diesels the new diesels are cleaner than petrols.

    * I stick half a litre of super unleaded petrol in an empty tank then fill up with diesel once a month. It cleans out the engine and cleans out the injectors.

    * Diesel is not a fuel it's an Oil designed by Rudolph diesel to run on peanut oil. Diesel fuel you buy contains unleaded to help it combust when compressed.

    * Best diesel engine in my opinion is izuzu 1.7ddti. I had two Astravan years ago you could run them on anything vegetable oil, rapeseed oil, etc ( although Saab 1.9tdi engine is a beast in the newer Astravan just be prepared to keep an eye on gearbox. (Can't handle torque).

    I love the smell of diesel in the morning it smells like victory..

    "Blow that DPF into the stone age son"
     
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  4. Midwest
    Online

    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Yep, its no big issue IF you are aware of it.

    It would be great, if the vehicle told what it was doing, giving you a chance to allow it to complete its cycle, bit like when a computer is doing an update.

    In the DS case, the 1st service from new is/was 21000 miles. The vehicle has a system, whereby the amount of regeneration is calculated. It has/had a countdown timer on the dash to advise the owner on next service. Early on, owners were taking their vehicles in for a service (before the 21k), and were told it doesn't need servicing yet & the trip was reset. Some had the engine oil independently analysed, and it contain damaging metals etc.

    I've been into LR dealerships, pretending an interest in a new DS. I asked about this issue, and the salesperson didn't know about it, either they don't know their product or are protecting it.
     
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  5. Strima
    Offline

    Strima Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    St Neots
    I would avoid putting any form of solvent (petrol) into your diesel as this will effect the lubricating characteristics of the diesel.

    Petrol tends to sit on top of diesel and due to the increased use of ethanol has a greater water content.

    Every few tanks fill up with the good stuff and take it for a rag down the local motorway for 20 minutes.
     
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  6. Tes369
    Online

    Tes369 Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ive never had a problem at all sticking a little petrol in a diesel engine like I already said I stick it in first on an empty tank. Cleans engine out a friend of mine is a mechanic who does the same i do it once in a blue moon.

    Never had an issue with a diesel engine other than a sticking EGR valve on a Audi A3 1.9tdi which I blanked off in the end and deleted it and got code deleted.

    Keep an eye out for diesel taxi drivers doing it before a full tank. A friend of mine works at a Tesco petrol station and he says taxi drivers regularly stick a splash in.

    Diesel lubricates your engine as it's an Oil I've never had an issue sticking a drop of petrol in once a month.

    Cheers
     
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    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 3:46 PM
  7. KEV 1 N
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    KEV 1 N Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Durham
    I’ve got a Chevrolet Orlando 2.0 diesel (GM Vauxhall engine) Any reviews on this car (or any Chevy diesel) will say DPFs are a problem, however I think the problem is lack of education. I think a lot of people are having problems because they don’t understand what’s happening with the engine and multiple ignored DPF re-gen attempts cause engine light to come on and limp mode.
    My cars signals when it’s doing a re-gen are increased idle rpm, increased fuel consumption. Also if I stop the engine during a re-gen, the cooling fans come on, so I know next time I drive it, I make sure it has a blast up the motorway.
    For the past several months I’ve been adding Millers Eclipse diesel additive every refill and the car does not do as many DPF re-gens, it seems to make the diesel burn cleaner and hotter. Also I avoid supermarket diesel.
    I’m also aware of the issue of diesel being dumped in the sump,so I will have oil changed every 6000 miles. Also the correct oil for Diesel engines with DPFs is ESSENTIAL, as incorrect grade can cause DPFs to become excessively clogged.

    I only have a diesel car for towing the caravan, otherwise I’d have a petrol.

    DPFs arnt a problem....you just have to understand them better.
     
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  8. Midwest
    Online

    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    That was the issue early on for the DS, picking on them, but I suspect other manufacturers have similar problems.

    As said owners were booking their cars in for service, only for dealers to say your car doesn't need service until 21000 miles. JLR issued a service bulletin in July 17, (attached). For some, the damage may have already been done.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Murdoch
    Offline

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Isn't the biggest issue with DPF's the short journeys that people do?

    Diesels definitely benefit from a run at a higher speed regularly
     
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  10. Midwest
    Online

    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Apparently its peoples driving style. I me who doesn't have to drive at least 40 miles every time we get into them. Hope your new VW isn't an Adblue addict!

    Is it just my end or is this web site a bit slow & choppy this afternoon?
     
  11. Strima
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    Strima Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    St Neots
    Diesels benefit from constant revs for long durations. Short trips around town do them no favours what so ever, even the older ones without DPFs will choke up.
     
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  12. wirepuller
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    wirepuller Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    south uk
    Some manufacturers,Citroen being one, use an automatic fuel additive system which makes successful regen of the DPF more likely even when driven by Auntie Edna. It works by reducing the burn temperature required to clear the DPF.
    But at the end of the day those who use Diesels for stop/start short trips are going to get an expensive shock sooner rather than later.
     
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  13. Tes369
    Online

    Tes369 Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Cumbria
    You can buy DPf cleaner from Halfords I'm not sure of its abitites. But apparently it can unblock a DPF...?

    I have unblocked a DPF on a previous van I had just bought by running it on higher grade diesel fuel. The vehicle was a 6 gear Vauxhall van got her into 6th on motorway dropped down to 5th for 10 minutes then down to 4th for 10 minutes got the revs high peeled back on the speed though. Slight splutter from the engine and smoke trail for 5 mins then clean and no light.

    I don't think that van had been on the motorway in months was running fine after that.

    * my biggest peev isn't the DPF's it's the EGR whoever thought of that needs locking up it takes exhaust gas then dumps all the $hit back into your inlet manifold those out there who have ever cleaned one out will know.

    ** Best thing to do to a DPF is cut it off burn all the guts out with a blowtorch put it back then delete the fault code it throws up. Thats what mechanics have been doing for a long time now because there up to £1000 to replace. Up to a £10'000 fine if caught doing that now.

    *** I think you can only weld 400mm away from a DPF otherwise it's a MOT failure it might be less my mechanic told me at christmas time..?

    **** I have a heat shield that's rubbing on my exhaust which needs just tacking up out the way

    Cheers
     
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    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 6:10 PM
  14. Bob Geldoff1234
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    Bob Geldoff1234 Regular EF Member

    The thing is most transit sized vans are diesel.Can you get petrol ones? Very limited choice and if so i bet the fuel consumption is terrible.
     
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  15. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    i once had a 2L petrol Transit. 22mpg at best.
     
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