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peterhyper

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I have been reading posts on this forum for quite a time, and some people have been criticising Part P as though it was a wonderful world before Part P came along.

I personally don't think it was so great before Part P, and I don't think it's so great now, but my point is that there were cowboys doing rubbish work prior to Part P so nothing much has changed in my opinion. I still frequently come across poor quality and even dangerous work from non Part P registered and Part P registered cowboys.

I would be interested to know how many cowboys were prosecuted in the decade prior to Part P for dangerous electrical work and how many in the past decade since Part P was introduced, and my guess would be that there wouldn't be a significant difference?
 
If Part P has been indifferent,it has made made no difference to standards either way,whats the point of it existing?

If as you say cowboys are present now as they were previously,it has had no effect and should be abolished as a useless and cost incurring nonsense for electricians

I also believe you are wrong, Part P has been and continues to be a pathetic attempt at regulating something that did not need regulating
 
you can argue about it til your blue in the face but nothing will change,every sector wether car mechanic,plumber,plasterer,electrician,joiner or whoever,all have had poor quality people involved and always will,you wont change anything,you just need to concentrate on trying to be the best you can and be at the top of your game as long as you can,and relax and have a beer/wine
 
My mother and father inlaw moved a couple of years ago. The house had been rewired by someone the previous owner had in, so I told my in-laws to make sure they got the part P cert from the solicitor.

This document turned up, it was a photocopy of a NVQ cert ( probably got it online) you could see that the chap had put bits of blank paper over the name and changed it to his !
The dates he qualified didn't add up either, he past his level 3 before his level 2 !

Anyway I told my in-laws but they wanted to move, didnt want to hold up the chain, so they just left it, had me test it and moved anyway.

Point I'm making is the Solicitor didn't know, the people who had the work done didn't know, my in-laws knew, but were in a Chain so their hands were tied.
My local council don't really give a monkeys either, hardly worth the effort.
 
I have been reading posts on this forum for quite a time, and some people have been criticising Part P as though it was a wonderful world before Part P came along.

I personally don't think it was so great before Part P, and I don't think it's so great now, but my point is that there were cowboys doing rubbish work prior to Part P so nothing much has changed in my opinion. I still frequently come across poor quality and even dangerous work from non Part P registered and Part P registered cowboys.

I would be interested to know how many cowboys were prosecuted in the decade prior to Part P for dangerous electrical work and how many in the past decade since Part P was introduced, and my guess would be that there wouldn't be a significant difference?
The whole thing is basically about training standards not being at the same level as previously. Part P and various shortcuts have come about due to the ineptitude of those in authority. It has resulted in a further regulation of the industry....not that it wasn't needed, to some extent. This other 'industry', coming about to implement it, has brought about the current 'money making' system, the schemes. Many, generally those who have been in the trade for decades, resent this. These are tradesmen who learned to be electricians in many facets of the trade and feel that today, the basic standard of being able to wield a screwdriver, falls way short of what it used to be.
 
I think it is easy to stand on the parapets and snipe at Part P, maybe it is and maybe it isn't the answer to poor workmanship. However it is part of the building regs which started in something like the 12th century in London. I wonder who among you can come up with any idea that is better than Part P? Could you provide an answer to poor workmanship? I think it is true to say that at least it frames an offence for where people depart from it and harm results. What is clear is that there are many prosecutions for breaching Part P, however I think it is true to say that enforcement could be more rigorously pursued. Personally I can't think of a better solution. And yeh it was better before Part P. You just got on with the job and did good workmanship, where now we have to have clipboard people checking on the legit workmen, while many are going under the radar with bad workmanship.
 
1.'Part P' short courses should be banned. 17th edition courses and the like should only be offered to qualified electricians as a means to bring their knowledge up to the current standards.

2.Getting paid to work on electrical installations when not qualified should be a criminal offence carrying a minimum fine of say £1000
 
Look fellas,it is,and has always been,about the money.Plain and simple.

If i had to guess which regs will be getting scrutiny,it will not be "P".

It will be "B" and "L". A certain London high-rise,will guarantee this.

So relax,and be on the look out for family members,struggling to wrap Knipex and Klein shaped packages :)
 
Part P was a cash cow generating plaster for a industry wise problem, it did nothing to solve the issue and created a financial burden for all the hard working sparks that do the industry good, it failed at routing out the cowboys because the thing with cowboys is they don't give a dogs under carriage who they rip off and put at risk so they feel no obligation to sign up.
If you want to get a reflection on this then look at the Gas Safe system for plumbers, they all have to be registered no exemptions, they all go through the same course and process to gain it and the Gas Safe is a name that is trusted throughout, there are no other routes or schemes which means it is well regulated, now look at our industry, we have several levels of training, competence seems to be no longer a requirement to go and wire someones house because a piece of paper says you have somehow crammed 3-4yrs of training into 5weeks, don't get me wrong here though there are exceptions to the rule of dedicated enthusiastic people who have done the Electrical Trainee courses and made a career with good workmanship but these are exceptions to the rule not the norm'.. most come off these courses without any on site experience and wire someones house up ... this really is somewhat shocking (pardon the pun), I frequently come across said people and a small chat later quickly reveals the total incompetence they seem to be proud of.
Been able to browse the regs and follow it is one thing and can get you places but been able to understand the core reason for each reg and where the tabled values come from is a whole different level and allows you to make educated decisions about any problem that may come your way.
I don't intend to undermine anyone's route into the industry but it has been dumbed down so much in the last 3 decades that I have seen apprentices come through my firm that cannot calculate 3 x 8 nor use simple logic to get around small problems... I honestly had one apprentice bring me a ratchet spanner to me saying it only tightens up, I had to turn it over for him :O... the same people who passed an aptitude test and had gcse in maths.

In a nutshell, Part P has been a waste of time and has cost the honest worker lots of money, it was a cash making idea that had no positive effects for the industry, it just give rise to a rip-off instant fast track courses that failed those taking the course and made those running them a fortune.
 
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I have been reading posts on this forum for quite a time, and some people have been criticising Part P as though it was a wonderful world before Part P came along.

I personally don't think it was so great before Part P, and I don't think it's so great now, but my point is that there were cowboys doing rubbish work prior to Part P so nothing much has changed in my opinion. I still frequently come across poor quality and even dangerous work from non Part P registered and Part P registered cowboys.

I would be interested to know how many cowboys were prosecuted in the decade prior to Part P for dangerous electrical work and how many in the past decade since Part P was introduced, and my guess would be that there wouldn't be a significant difference?
Part P, came with it came 5wws, with that came many people sitting the Part P exam calling themselves Eletrician's, or Domestic Installers, make your own mind up.
 
When I started out in the late 70's the only registration scheme that I am aware of was the NICEIC AC roll. Back then it was a respected recognition of quality. Anyone looking to engage an electrician could choose the NICEIC route or take a chance with a non registered electrician. Their choice. Now even engaging an approved contractor does not guarantee quality.
Very sad.
 
When I started out in the late 70's the only registration scheme that I am aware of was the NICEIC AC roll. Back then it was a respected recognition of quality. Anyone looking to engage an electrician could choose the NICEIC route or take a chance with a non registered electrician. Their choice. Now even engaging an approved contractor does not guarantee quality.
Very sad.
Very true, although as a side issue, just because,
if in those days, you were not a member of NICEIC didn't make you a bad Electrician, just thought I would clear that up. The same applies today.
 
I might be wrong, but Part P of the Building Regulations was introduced to provide a 'legal requirement for all work on fixed electrical installations in dwellings and associated buildings to comply with relevant standards'. The relevant standard is BS7671.

Failure to comply with Building regs, is a criminal offence. I can't see that Part P was conceived as a 'cash cow'. It was conceived to improve safety & regulate the domestic side of the industry.

Unfortunately it has failed to do this, for the reasons previously stated, and what has followed since, has perhaps become a 'cash cow'.

Do I like giving Elecsa £500 a year, no I don't. Only about 1 in 10 of my customers are aware or care about Part P Building regs, and therefore ask if I'm in a scheme or not. Always is and always will be 'how much?'.
 
I might be wrong, but Part P of the Building Regulations was introduced to provide a 'legal requirement for all work on fixed electrical installations in dwellings and associated buildings to comply with relevant standards'. The relevant standard is BS7671.

Failure to comply with Building regs, is a criminal offence. I can't see that Part P was conceived as a 'cash cow'. It was conceived to improve safety & regulate the domestic side of the industry.

Unfortunately it has failed to do this, for the reasons previously stated, and what has followed since, has perhaps become a 'cash cow'.

Do I like giving Elecsa £500 a year, no I don't. Only about 1 in 10 of my customers are aware or care about Part P Building regs, and therefore ask if I'm in a scheme or not. Always is and always will be 'how much?'.
You're right it wasn't meant to be a cash cow, trouble is once the scams realised they could make money, that was the time it turned into a cash cow, and on and on and on.
 

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