Posting a message to the forum will remove the above advertisement

Discuss What electrical work am I allowed to do as an unqualified homeowner? in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

Please make sure you checkout our forum sponsors, many do discounts for members and, they keep the forum free to use.
  1. purple
    Offline

    purple DIY

    Location:
    devon
    Hi Guys,

    Hope this is in the correct section. I just recently discovered that I am technically not allowed to install an extractor fan despite being outside of the special zones and would need an electrician to fit so they test and issue certificates. Now I have found clear information on what is notifiable under part P and I get that, but still struggling to get my head round the minor works certificate (I think that is the one being referred to?) Anyway, this was actually all news to me and I wasn't aware of it, so I am trying to gain some knowledge and understanding on the matter and have scoured google for hours but can't seem to find any solid information or rules on the subject

    Ethics aside, what work am I actually allowed to do on my own house as an unqualified electrician? before I need a certificate issuing? Am literally only allowed to replace like for like but not add or modify an existing circuit?

    If so, I have two questions relating to that. What are the (non moral) consequences of not having that certificate eg is it a legal requirement? or is it just something someone (lenders/insurance) likes to see when they buy a house for piece of mind? I don't have any certificates from the previous owners of this house for any work done by them or their electricians.

    Also, Has this always been the case, or like part P, is this or more recent rule defined by a date, and identified by a change of colours on the cable.


    Any concise clear reading resources you can point me to on the subject would be appreciated also!
    Thanks for your time.
     
  2. telectrix
    Offline

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    basically, you can do what you like in your own house as long as you are competent. it is, however, preferable to have the altered circuit tested in accordance with BS7671 (although not mandatory ) and a certificate issued for the work done. this would entail the purchase of the necessary test equipment and the knowledge to use it. cheaper to pay an electrician for a couple of hours to install and complete the paperwork.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Andy78
    Offline

    Andy78 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    In addition to what Tel said, the inspection and testing of a wiring alteration is always a good idea to ensure safety of those using it and the property in which it is installed. If anything went wrong, your competence and that the alteration was carried out in accordance with the wiring regs are things you may have to provide proof of. Insurance agents are just waiting for excuses like this not to pay out for claims.

    Further advice
    Electrical DIY - http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/guides-and-advice/around-the-home/electrical-diy/
     
  4. purple
    Offline

    purple DIY

    Location:
    devon
    Thanks for replying with that info Telectrix! I was just reading here

    "It is a legal requirement to complete a Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate (commonly known as the Minor Works Certificate) after electrical installation work has been carried out on a modified circuit."

    So that confuses me a bit, as that makes it sound mandatory?

    Also, out of interest can a non qualified electrician with sufficient knowledge and testing equipment fill out and issue that certificate if needed, or does competence have to be proved first?
     
  5. purple
    Offline

    purple DIY

    Location:
    devon
    Cheers Again Andy! Will take a read! :thumbsup:
     
  6. Des 56
    Offline

    Des 56 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Gliese 581C
    Ethics aside, what work am I actually allowed to do on my own house as an unqualified electrician? before I need a certificate issuing?

    With reference to the wiring regulations,testing and certification forms part of all electrical installation works
    Depending on the work undertaken,it could be a minor works certificate or an electrical installation certificate

    There is no restriction on anyone carrying out electrical work in domestic premises

    There is the matter of competence,the person should be able to install and test his work competently
    If you are doing work for yourself the risk is yours to live with or even die

    When the work is notifiable,building control needs to be informed, there are 2 options
    Option 1
    Pay a fee to building control and they will test/inspect the work
    Option2
    Join a self certification scheme,it allows the person to self certificate that work is deemed in compliance with Building regs (with no involvement by Labc)

    The certification that is sometimes asked for by insurance companies,mortgage lenders etc can stipulate that to ensure the work is satisfactory that the installers certification be under the wing of a scheme provider (where the member has had inspection of his skills and insurances etc)
    You can provide your own but whether it is acceptable to the other party is your decision to make

     
  7. EMMEC
    Offline

    EMMEC Regular EF Member

    Location:
    London
    Business Name:
    EMM Electrical Contractors LTD
    yes is mandatory / even BS7671:2015 is not a statuatory document / because of part P building regulation
     
  8. spinlondon
    Offline

    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
    Nope, complete rubbish.
     
  9. EMMEC
    Offline

    EMMEC Regular EF Member

    Location:
    London
    Business Name:
    EMM Electrical Contractors LTD
    Part P always refers to BS7671 eg Part P Sec 3.31 so in your situation for the said above work a minor works certificate must be completed.
    Some are under the impression that like-for-like replacement of accessories is regarded as maintenance rather than installation work and that no certification is required.
    As in Regulation 631.3, the word, 'may' in the third sentence of the Notes to the MWC in Appendix 6 of BS 7671 may be causing some confusion. It states, 'This Certificate may also be used for the replacement of equipment such as accessories or luminaires, but not for the replacement of distribution boards or similar items'.
    Where one accessory, such as a broken socket-outlet/light fitting, is replaced, the same tests are required as if a socket-outlet/light fitting had been added to the circuit or relocated. The final sentence in the Notes states, ''Appropriate inspection and testing, however, should always be carried out irrespective of the extent of the work undertaken'.
    Appropriate inspection and testing is listed in the MWC, Part 3, Essential Tests. They are tests for earth continuity, insulation resistance, earth fault loop impedance, polarity and, if applicable, RCD operation.
    This certificate then proves that it is safe and traceable documentation is available.

    in short In short. YES it is required by law. as part P building regulations are the law, and they say we MUST follow BS 7671
     
  10. spinlondon
    Offline

    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
    More rubbish.
    Compliance with BS7671 is just an option, not a requirement.

    "In the Secretary of State’s view, the requirements of Part P will be met if low voltage and extra-low voltage electrical installations in dwellings are designed and installed so that both of the following conditions are satisfied.
    1. They afford appropriate protection against mechanical and thermal damage.

    2. They do not present electric shock and fire hazards to people."
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  11. EMMEC
    Offline

    EMMEC Regular EF Member

    Location:
    London
    Business Name:
    EMM Electrical Contractors LTD
    so what is a proof of :

    1. They afford appropriate protection against mechanical and thermal damage.

    2. They do not present electric shock and fire hazards to people."

    a minor works certificate.

    more reading with understanding :)
     
  12. spinlondon
    Offline

    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
    If you were to do more reading, you would note that the document states 'should' be designed, 'should' be installed, etc. in accordance with BS7671.
    If you were to read the document properly, you would also note that only the parts that have a green background, are statutory requirements.
    As for understanding, could I suggest you try reading the Statutory Legislation, in particular Part P of Schedule 1 of the Building Regulations 2010.
    Count up how many times BS7671 is mentioned there.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  13. Midwest
    Offline

    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Just crack on with want you want to do, then some time in the future someone else will ask for an addition/alteration/new work to your property you've left behind, and then someone else will have to put right the balls up you've done, figuratively speaking of course :)

    Ps that's of course if you are not a qualified competent electrician, who is for any reason not signed up to one of the scams, or just some DIY bod who thinks he/she knows best.
     
  14. Wilko
    Offline

    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    Hi Purple - to me the question is who will be responsible for the work? If I make a change and later someone is hurt I will be responsible. If you make a change it will be likewise, just saying. Separate from that is the lawful need to comply with building regs which you've mentioned. On insurance, I suspect it may be like unauthorised modifications to cars and they will limit their liability if there was a fire or something.
     
  15. purple
    Offline

    purple DIY

    Location:
    devon
    Thanks Guys... Interesting stuff. Given that you guys being qualified and have different/apposing interpretations on the subject.I actually feel a little better that I was/am struggling to get my head around it all and any clear cut black and white answers on the subject,

    How about this..

    Let's assume filling out a certificate was a legal requirement.
    If I went out and purchased say a 17th edition specced tester and performed the tests myself. Could I, as 'Johnny nobody' with no tangible proof of competence, fill out the certificates myself or do I need to be affiliated with some kind of governing professional body (NICEIC etc...)?
     
  16. spinlondon
    Offline

    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
    BS7671 requires all electrical installation work to be inspected and tested. There is no requirement for the person conducting the inspection and testing to be registered, affiliated or even qualified.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. telectrix
    Offline

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    but BS7671 is not statutory. so no legal requirement.
     
  18. HandySparks
    Offline

    HandySparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Hampshire
    Business Name:
    Neish Electrical Services
    True, but the building regs are, and demonstrating compliance with Part P of the building regs other than by complying with BS7671 would be beyond the capabilities of most.
     
  19. telectrix
    Offline

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    agreed, but partp only applies to notifiable works.the OP was more concerned with minor works and how much he could reasonablydohimself.
     
  20. spinlondon
    Offline

    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
    Part P applies to all electrical work.
    In order to comply with Part P, reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering from fire or injury.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Taylortwocities
    Online

    Taylortwocities Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Indeed, and that is all that the text of the STATUTORY INSTRUMENT (P1) says.

    The APPROVED DOCUMENT (commonly referred to as Building Regulations, Part P) lays out ways in which the STATUTORY INSTRUMENT can be complied with.
     
  22. GREEBO
    Offline

    GREEBO EF Member

    Location:
    Newark,Notts
    Business Name:
    Essential Electrical Services
    So what if a person is fully qualified 2391 i&t.17th edition but not part p(member of a scam)?
    Minor works filled out correctly etc.
     
  23. Midwest
    Offline

    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    The only real reason for any electrician to be in a scheme, is it's financially more viable to carry out numerous amounts 'notifiable' work, than paying one off fees to a LBC.

    Me thinks, you thinking of being a domestic electrician without joining a scheme :)
     
  24. GREEBO
    Offline

    GREEBO EF Member

    Location:
    Newark,Notts
    Business Name:
    Essential Electrical Services
    Possibly, but the point is you are only accountable if something goes wrong and you have put your name to it.I have come across dodgy practice endless times and the daft thing is, if they haven't certified it, how are they accountable. When I asked "who did this"the answer was not got a clue some sparky or,, it had always been like that.
    My conscience is my guide.
     
  25. Midwest
    Offline

    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    But being a member of a scheme, doesn't make you more accountable, I wish it did, but it doesn't (I'm a member of a scheme).

    Most of the dodgy work I've come across, has been DIY attempts at electrical work, but I have seen some right bodges, allegedly done by electricians. I like to believe that I do my work in a professional way, using good workmanship, correct tools and materials. The end result tested & inspected before and after energising it.

    However, the only one who checks and verifies my work, is me. :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...
Similar Threads - electrical allowed unqualified Forum Date
Jackson Electrical Services Directory of Electricians in the UK Today at 10:05 AM
AC Gold Electrical Services Ltd Directory of Electricians in the UK Tuesday at 3:16 PM

Share This Page

Users found this page by searching for:

  1. installing an outside security light notifiable

  • Electricians Directory Post a Domestic Job Post a Commercial Job