What S.I. under risk assessement for omission of RCD in regs

[Strima]

I would be happy to omit RCD protection in this instance as the socket is in a locked area and is for a specific piece of equipment (Caveat: dependant upon installation method):

411.3.3 Additional Protection

In a.c. systems, additional protection by means of an RCD in accordance with Regulation 415.1 shall be provided for.

(i) Socket-outlets with a rated current not exceeding 20 A, and
(ii) Mobile equipment with a current rating not exceeding 32 for use outdoors.

And exception to (i) is permitted:

(a) Where, other than for an installation in a dwelling, a documented risk assessment determines that the RCD protection is not necessary, or
(b) For a specific labelled or otherwise suitably identified socket-outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment.

Not often I say this, but bung a label on it.

 

[TJ Anderson]

I would be happy to omit RCD protection in this instance as the socket is in a locked area and is for a specific piece of equipment (Caveat: dependant upon installation method):

411.3.3 Additional Protection

In a.c. systems, additional protection by means of an RCD in accordance with Regulation 415.1 shall be provided for.

(i) Socket-outlets with a rated current not exceeding 20 A, and
(ii) Mobile equipment with a current rating not exceeding 32 for use outdoors.

And exception to (i) is permitted:

(a) Where, other than for an installation in a dwelling, a documented risk assessment determines that the RCD protection is not necessary, or
(b) For a specific labelled or otherwise suitably identified socket-outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment.

Not often I say this, but bung a label on it.

Fine under the 17th, just label socket. Designed from January.....not so easy. They have removed this " get out" and will require documented risk assesment to omit.

 

[Strima]

Fine under the 17th, just label socket. Designed from January.....not so easy. They have removed this " get out" and will require documented risk assesment to omit.

Design it to the 17th then...

TBH this change is going to give me headaches as I do a lot of telecoms work which have blue light services attached. We don't want them RCD protected as live may be put at risk if the supply drops. These are in secure server rooms but at the moment customers are reluctant to carry out a risk assessment.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Design it to the 17th then...

TBH this change is going to give me headaches as I do a lot of telecoms work which have blue light services attached. We don't want them RCD protected as live may be put at risk if the supply drops. These are in secure server rooms but at the moment customers are reluctant to carry out a risk assessment.

Agree, design to 17th for now. It's gonna be a problem for a lot of people come January. Commercial Fridges particularly

 

[Nigel]

A risk assessment can be done quite easily.

Control measures could be things like:

‘only RCD plugs to be used on this socket.’

‘All equipment to have been visually checked prior to use and PAT tested within 3 months’

‘Class 2 equipment only’

Very easy to risk assess out an RCD if the environment is right.

 

[westward10]

Would Class II equipment carry any weight, there is still a shock risk with such an appliance.

 

[Nigel]

Would Class II equipment carry any weight, there is still a shock risk with such an appliance.

It would be down to whomever completed the risk assessment to decide. Everything has an element of risk. Risk assessments are an attempt to take significant risks and put in reasonable control measures. They are not about taking all risks and eliminating them.

 

[Nigel]

Design it to the 17th then...

TBH this change is going to give me headaches as I do a lot of telecoms work which have blue light services attached. We don't want them RCD protected as live may be put at risk if the supply drops. These are in secure server rooms but at the moment customers are reluctant to carry out a risk assessment.

Risk assessments need to be done by electrically competent persons. Whomever does the design should incorporate this into their Designers Risk Assessment.

 

[TJ Anderson]

A risk assessment can be done quite easily.

Control measures could be things like:

‘only RCD plugs to be used on this socket.’

‘All equipment to have been visually checked prior to use and PAT tested within 3 months’

‘Class 2 equipment only’

Very easy to risk assess out an RCD if the environment is right.

The thing is though, this risk assesment will be ongoing for the life of that <30A socket with 30ma RCD protection omitted.
The IET are clearly taking the onus off them and putting onto the installer. Who deems those control measures are suitable for the life of that socket that is now outside of BS7671 regulations? IET don't even want to give guidance on control measures..

It's a different scenario having RAMS for a job which is completed in a timeframe and then is finished and RAMS for an installation that could still have implications way down the line....

 

[TJ Anderson]

I think it's the most affecting change in the 18th for commercial and industrial

 

[Nigel]

The thing is though, this risk assesment will be ongoing for the life of that <30A socket with 30ma RCD protection omitted.
The IET are clearly taking the onus off them and putting onto the installer. Who deems those control measures are suitable for the life of that socket that is now outside of BS7671 regulations? IET don't even want to give guidance on control measures..

It's a different scenario having RAMS for a job which is completed in a timeframe and then is finished and RAMS for an installation that could still have implications way down the line....

I disagree. It is only up to the designer to complete a design based on the knowledge they have at the time. If the risk changes then it is up to the person in charge of the installation to make sure changes are done properly. Also if come the next inspections things have changed this should be picked up by the engineer testing.

 

[TJ Anderson]

I disagree. It is only up to the designer to complete a design based on the knowledge they have at the time. If the risk changes then it is up to the person in charge of the installation to make sure changes are done properly. Also if come the next inspections things have changed this should be picked up by the engineer testing.

I disagree. It is only up to the designer to complete a design based on the knowledge they have at the time. If the risk changes then it is up to the person in charge of the installation to make sure changes are done properly. Also if come the next inspections things have changed this should be picked up by the engineer testing.

Good points and I think there is gonna be a lot of discussion about this..

Hypothetically....if you had one of these, would you append ommission risk assesment to EIC or actually make it part of it on a continuation sheet?

 

[Nigel]

Good points and I think there is gonna be a lot of discussion about this..

Hypothetically....if you had one of these, would you append ommission risk assesment to EIC or actually make it part of it on a continuation sheet?

I would probably do it as a seperate document and reference it in the EIC.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The RA should be appended to the EIC.
Other options are to hard wire, or use a 64A plug and socket.

 

[The Ghost]

The software I use has a section for RA for omission of RCD in the EIC. @spinlondon why a 64A socket? Single phase 16A radial by the way this circuit is. I presume no chance of accidentally plugging in something you should not???

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The current requirement is for sockets rated up to 20A to be provided with RCD protection.
Therefore if a socket rated above 20A is used, there is no requirement for RCD protection.
The 18th edition requirement will be for socket-outlets rated up to 32A.

 

[Risteard]

Never seen a 64A socket...

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Never seen a 64A socket...

2CMA167905R1000 | ABB Horizontal Switchable IP67 Interlocked Socket 3P+E, 64A, 346 → 415 V | RS Components - https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/industrial-interlocks/8305293/
There you go.

 

[Risteard]

2CMA167905R1000 | ABB Horizontal Switchable IP67 Interlocked Socket 3P+E, 64A, 346 → 415 V | RS Components - https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/industrial-interlocks/8305293/
There you go.

That's obviously a typographical error. The correct rating will be 63A.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

That's obviously a typographical error. The correct rating will be 63A.

Ahh, typos, guess anyone can make them.