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  1. Jamie'
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    Jamie' EF Member

    Location:
    Essex
    Hi guys,

    I'm currently in my last year of my apprenticeship and I think my boss has set me a challenge! I was at a house and got moved a few things around in the kitchen for a new kitchen to be fitted and also upgraded the fuse board so it had RCD protection.

    Now on one of the rings (ground floor ring) the reading on l-l and e-e was fine but on n-n the reading was 62ish. And then when trying to do insulation resistance it was just giving a dead short. So I checked all the sockets and all was fine there but the house seems a total mess with junction boxes every where as most sockets only had 1 cable at it.
    Now what I'm wondering is this down to me to find the fault and fix as I'm the one who has changed the fuse board? Or if I've read reg 632.4 correctly it means it's not down to me?
    Just wondering if anyone has any ideas on what I could do?
    Hope this makes sense!
     
  2. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    I take it no pre board change tests were carried out, big mistake. What is "62ish".
     
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  3. Jamie'
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    Jamie' EF Member

    Location:
    Essex
    No idea to be honest what would these be? Along the lines of an EICR?

    By 62 ish I mean 62 ohms seeing a as I'm doing continuity?
     
  4. Dannyg8810
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    Dannyg8810 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Leeds
    Inspect and testing so much of the installation you deem appropriate before removing anything or altering circuits to prevent the situation your in now.
     
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  5. Jamie'
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    Jamie' EF Member

    Location:
    Essex
    So test it say no thanks and walk away from the job?
     
  6. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    My view is the circuit has a fault on it and so you can't just put it back into service. Detective time !
    I do test before, but I also tell the Customer that faults found during work will be fixed but they are extra.
     
  7. Jamie'
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    Jamie' EF Member

    Location:
    Essex
    The customer isn't willing for any carpet or damage to be done though.
     
  8. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Northampton
    What he said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     
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  9. Dannyg8810
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    Dannyg8810 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Leeds
    It's sensible to test anything before working o
    no advise the customer that there is an issue and explain time to find fault is chargeable
     
  10. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    If some pre tests were carried out you would have discovered if this was an existing issue or one you have caused. Does your boss know the situation at this site.
     
  11. Jamie'
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    Jamie' EF Member

    Location:
    Essex
    So pre tests should have been carried out.
    Now to the question I asked have I read that reg 632.4 correctly and best way to find and repair it?
     
  12. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Northampton
    Should have been tested during the CU change as has been stated a couple of times, how many ishes was r1 and r2 also what was the result in ishes when you did the figure of 8 test on the RFC
     
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  13. Wilko
    Offline

    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    If I could encourage you - first find the fault then work out how to fix it. In an hour you will (hopefully) narrow it down to "between these 2 outlets" or some such. Then comes the question of how to resolve.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  14. Jamie'
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    Jamie' EF Member

    Location:
    Essex
    If your going to be like that I don't even want your help mate. No need to be a... to someone asking for help and guidance.
     
  15. Jamie'
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    Jamie' EF Member

    Location:
    Essex
    Cheers Wilko, and the reg part of my query am I right on that?
     
  16. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Who carried out the alterations, you, your boss or both of you.
     
  17. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    Re 632.4 - you didn't instal that circuit, but you are about to take an action to put a 32A mcb on it ... which shouldn't be done with ring discontinuity.
     
  18. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    I hate to be picky but what exactly was a "dead short" ?
     
  19. Jamie'
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    Jamie' EF Member

    Location:
    Essex
    Getting 0M when doing IR tests

    Edit: 0M ohms* not ish.
     
  20. Dave Jenkins
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    Dave Jenkins Therapy? Nah, motorcycles!

    Location:
    Devon
    To address your original question, Since you didn't carry out pre testing, in my view the last person to touch the installation gets to fix it...that's why we test thoroughly before hand. If such testing doesn't go well you get then exit the job with a clear conscience!!
     
  21. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Really?

    L-N
    L-E
    N-E

    I doubt this very much
     
  22. Jamie'
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    Jamie' EF Member

    Location:
    Essex
    Yes sir, I even tried to bypass the neutral but still same result.
     
  23. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    If you got 0 Ohms L-N then something still plugged in :)
     
  24. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    And 0 ohms N - E the main switch is still on
     
  25. Gavin John Hyde
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    Gavin John Hyde Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Somerset
    Business Name:
    Sulis Electrical Services
    When doing my 2365 and starting in the trade i was given a flow chart of testing to do prior to a CU change by my supervisor at my first firm. It has served me well over the years and saved many an hour of fault finding after the event, its not too dissimilar to the one electrical safety first publish. Its a good little document for you to read. Have a read of this for future reference...
     

    Attached Files:

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  26. HandySparks
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    HandySparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Hampshire
    Business Name:
    Neish Electrical Services
    So, could be a few k ohms, depending on the resolution of your meter?
     
  27. PEG
    Offline

    PEG Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Manchester
    So,Jamie,you fitted an RCD board,where there was none previously,and did no testing. That was unwise.
    Moving forward,you know the areas,where a fault may exist,and what may be required to rectify the problem. There is no regulation which can obviate this.

    Give us a list of the actual tests and results,you have,and there are plenty on here,who will give advice and tips.

    Keep a sense of humour-there will be bigger worries,as you go through life :)
     
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  28. sparkdog
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    sparkdog sparkdog Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Sunny Sussex
    Business Name:
    C MacRae Electrical
    Is it actually a ring if " most sockets only had 1 cable at it"?
     
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  29. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    In fact it is a dead ringer for BPG1!
     
  30. anthonybragg
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    anthonybragg Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    NORTHAMPTON
    Business Name:
    CHARLTEC ELECTRICAL LTD
    Jamie,
    Did you not post this on here before ?, for what I am reading into this you did a continuity test between both ends of the ring final circuit got a low reading between both ends of live both ends of earth what was your results ? when you did the test between both ends of the neutral you got 62 ohms.
    You then did a insulation resistance test and got a dead short on both the ends of neutral.
    Please correct me here if I have interpreted incorrectly.
    Also what was the cable was it all 2.5/1.5 T&E and have you established what sockets /points that are on this circuit.
     
  31. einstein
    Offline

    einstein Active EF Member

    Location:
    Pavlovs House
    find the fault and rectify?

    you've got every book imaginable to refer too?

    c&g 2391 closed book exam they were the days
     
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