Why aren't ring circuits banned?

[kingeri]

And 4mm radials are far more limited, fart near the cable and the CCC drops below 32A.

 

[chronyx]

Every circuit has the potential to be extremely dangerous if it is not installed and tested properly, why would you single out ring circuits for this?

How old are the circuits you are finding these issues with? Are they reasonably modern circuits which have been fully tested at the time of installation or are they older circuits which may not have been tested at install or have been fiddled with over time?

All sorts, new colours through to late 1970's stuff.

Yes they will have been modified poorly but that's my point, at least an overloaded radial (As long as the MCB isn't over-rated) will just trip rather than work fine up until the point the smoke starts.

 

[chronyx]

And 4mm radials are far more limited, fart near the cable and the CCC drops below 32A.

Is there a CCC chart for 2x2.5mm T&E?

Or do you mean the 100 square metre area allowed of a ring circuit?

 

[Andy78]

All sorts, new colours through to late 1970's stuff.

Yes they will have been modified poorly but that's my point, at least an overloaded radial (As long as the MCB isn't over-rated) will just trip rather than work fine up until the point the smoke starts.

How many ring circuits have you encountered with broken continuity that have been overloaded to the point where the smoke starts ?

 

[kingeri]

Is there a CCC chart for 2x2.5mm T&E?

Or do you mean the 100 square metre area allowed of a ring circuit?

I mean unless clipped direct, you can't run it on a 32A mcb.

 

[chronyx]

How many ring circuits have you encountered with broken continuity that have been overloaded to the point where the smoke starts ?

One today that's why I posted.

I guess I'm just amazed that something that has the potential to cause serious damage is just fine, while we're now told to C3 plastic consumer units and make sure there's RCD protection for near enough everything.

Oh well, clearly in a minority of 1.

 

[chronyx]

I mean unless clipped direct, you can't run it on a 32A mcb.

Ah gotcha

 

[kingeri]

That's not to say that I never use 32A 4mm radials, cos I do. I just think every circuit has it's place and that it comes down to proper design.

 

[Risteard]

I like them.

Me too. I fully support and endorse the ring final circuit when used appropriately and correctly.

Rubbish DIY work or incompetent Electricians not verifying circuit integrity is not the fault of the ring final circuit.

 

[Risteard]

Isn't that the fault of the people who tinker with the circuits without knowing what they are doing. Maybe they should ban them instead.

Precisely.

Long live the ring final circuit.

 

[chronyx]

I wouldn't know about that, but I do know that my commercial customers have ring circuits installed for the output of static inverters and central battery systems to reduce voltage drop and give redundancy, especially on lower voltage DC circuits.
Car park lighting or large area lighting also utilises ring circuits to limit volt drop and cable size.
Distribution circuits, both LV and HV, utilise various forms of ring circuits, mostly for redundancy.

You would sure as hell see a lot more power cuts if a universal ban on ring circuits was applied across the country

OK fine. For the sake of clarity/pedantry I was referring to a 32A ring final circuit, with 2.5mm live conductors and a 1.5mm CPC, in a domestic/unsupervised situation.

 

[7029 dave]

I like them, because it's ours.Do we really want to go back in time, when 15amp radials were about, with the electric tree growing off it.?
But the modern radials do have their place in some situations. Just MO.

 

[westward10]

Ring final circuits are here to stay like them or not what I really love when testing them are the people who save £5 a year but putting two cpcs through one sleeve, maybe even twisting them together at the same time.

 

[Wes1000]

Ring final circuits are here to stay like them or not what I really love when testing them are the people who save £5 a year but putting two cpcs through one sleeve, maybe even twisting them together at the same time.

Man I hate that!!

 

[andyb]

OK fine. For the sake of clarity/pedantry I was referring to a 32A ring final circuit, with 2.5mm live conductors and a 1.5mm CPC, in a domestic/unsupervised situation.

That's my favourite type of ring circuit.

 

[Hellmooth]

Ring final circuits are here to stay like them or not what I really love when testing them are the people who save £5 a year but putting two cpcs through one sleeve, maybe even twisting them together at the same time.

That is the worst, well that and trying to find both legs in a spaghetti junction mess!

 

[Dave OCD]

It's often much easier to do the end to ends and R1+R2 tests at a convenient socket rather than disconnecting within a 'busy' CU.

 

[valleybilly]

Found an immersion heater on a ring this week with only 2 other bedroom sockets on it . The load was 3kw for the heater and all tests are good so as it was an old install and it was an CU change only . Rings Rule !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! . PS Did reduce the rcbo to 20 amps

 

[davesparks]

Found an immersion heater on a ring this week with only 2 other bedroom sockets on it . The load was 3kw for the heater and all tests are good so as it was an old install and it was an CU change only . Rings Rule !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! . PS Did reduce the rcbo to 20 amps

What's wrong with an immersion heater on a ring? It's been pretty common for decades. I wouldn't do it on a new installation, but see no issue with it as an alteration to an existing install.
Why reduce the size of the ocpd? Was there something wrong with the circuit?

 

[Pat H]

Immersions on rings should be less of an issue nowadays. With modern Central heating people us a lot less electric heaters so ring loading is often less than it would have been when elec was cheap.