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wireing in a loft

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum' started by Edd, Feb 23, 2012.

Discuss wireing in a loft in the Electrical Forum area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. Edd
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    Edd Guest

    Having to deal with a complaint, that a tennents house has recently been rewired and their not happy with the cables in the loft just laying under the insulation. now im sure when any of us do a rewire only sometimes do we clip them, but this persons saying they should be protected by conduit or drilled through the joists!!
    any input would be greatfull as Ive gota reply to a stinking email
    thanks
    Edd
     
  2. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    drilled through the joists would mean they are <50mm from ceiling and the joists are weakened. why conduit? do they have rats?
     
  3. Edd
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    Edd Guest

    apparently the cables could get dammaged if he was to tread on them going across the joists!!!
     
  4. wirepuller
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    wirepuller Trusted Advisor

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    New cables just laying under the insulation is poor......normal practice is to clip to the sides of the joists,preferably out of insulation. Even better is to use running boards clear of insulation.....I'd complain if my newly rewired loft had the cables laying under the insulation unsecured.
     
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  5. wirepuller
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    wirepuller Trusted Advisor

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    Not apparently....fact.
     
  6. Edd
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    Edd Guest

    just spoke to the chap who rewired it and theres 200mm of insulation across all the joists and his pushed all the cables along the edges as know joists can even be seen under all the ichy wool
     
  7. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    last loft i saw insulated had warning signs " DO NOT WALK IN LOFT- DANGER OF DEATH" and other silliness. i agree the cables should have a degree of clipping and be routed away from the centre of the loft where they cross the joists and clipped to the sides where they parallel the joists. get in there with a box of clips and a manchester screwdriver. couple of hours of sweating should do it.
     
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  8. timo1
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    timo1 Electrician's Arms

    Wow the householder must be bored...if it was a choice between drilling joists and putting cables neatly to the side I know which one i'd choose. Its a judgement call for the installer IMO, I'm not talking about throwing cables over joists but when there are things in the loft, itchy insulation and its about 100 deg and you can hardly move to begin with I think its acceptable not to clip.
     
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  9. drew35
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    drew35 Guest

    I'm sure if you had added the labour cost to remove all the insulation so you can fix to the joist then put it back again he would have told you where to go. Most lofts I see now that have had the extra layer of insulation added, the added layer runs across the original layer, that makes it even harder to work around.
    How were the cables fixed before the rewire?
     
  10. Newsome3
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    Newsome3 Electrician's Arms

    on all our rewires mainly council rewires we always run over insulstion on running boards and where needed to spout off we use all round band
    were needed we run cables in eves

    this is mainly due to spec council want
    when up in loft wiring it it only takes a little longer to do job tight and once

    as for heat/insulation/stuff shoved in loft thats a poor excuse to be honest
     
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  11. Edd
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    Edd Guest

    thanks for the input, as far as i know it was originlly wired with cables just pushed into the edges,, no clips,, so the sparks has just done like for like.. I understand in an ideal world we would clip them to the edges of joists and I have done just that on new builds. but as others have said, when you cant see the joists and its 100 deg + up there you aint gona spend half the day doing it... can anyone point me to a regulation that can back the sparks up on this? or am i gona be asking him to go back with conduit and re do the lighting circuit!!! thanks again..

    PS.. I had read somewhere that a loft is not to be used for storage but is an area to allow a pitched roof for rain to run off. i see the skilled persons only reg here!! i say padlock his loft and tell him its not for storage, and his not allowed up there....
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2012
  12. robd
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    robd Electrician's Arms

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    Sounds like a muppet, if he wanted conduit up there he should've said so before he had the work done! Conduit in the loft, give me stregth
     
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  13. HandySparks
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    HandySparks Trusted Advisor

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    Re: wiring in a loft

    The On-Site Guide (17th Amd 1), P127, ...examples of method of support for cables... : "5 For sheathed and/or armoured cables in horizontal runs which are inaccessible and unlikely to be disturbed, resting without fixing on part of a building , the surface of that part being reasonably smooth."

    So I would have no problem with twin & earth lying on the plasterboard ceiling and covered with insulation provided that the current carrying capacity of the cable, taking into account the insulation, is OK. I would also make sure that the cables were off the top of the joists in the immediate area of the loft hatch and any other obvious maintenance routes, eg to water tanks, valves, shower pumps, etc.
     
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  14. Dave 85
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    Dave 85 Guest

    As handysparks has said there's no requirement for clipping in BS7671. Being a loft I would say there is also no requirement for excessive neatness. Personally I am rarly seen going into a loft with cable clips. I do all my joist jumping right at the edge of the eaves or down the central purlin so that the loft can be boarded without obstruction.

    The tenant is a busybody, they obviously just enjoy having something to complain about.
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2012
  15. Geordie Spark
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    Geordie Spark Trusted Advisor

    I seem to remember reading somewhere that we're not allowed to drill through ceiling joists, but I could be mistaken.
     
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