Working live

[cogsy]

How many sparks would work in a square D KQ 3phase DB board if it was LIVE i was putting a new mcb in a live DB and it blown the MCCB at section board i tested between phases and there was no polarity between any conductors switched the MCCB and it tripped again
WHAT COULD OF HAPPENED

 

[telectrix]

pilot error.

 

[Risteard]

How many sparks would work in a square D KQ 3phase DB board if it was LIVE i was putting a new mcb in a live DB and it blown the MCCB at section board i tested between phases and there was no polarity between any conductors switched the MCCB and it tripped again
WHAT COULD OF HAPPENED

What was the prospective fault current at the DB?

 

[Marvo]

I don't fully understand what happened. I got that you replaced an MCB on a live DB but I don't understand the part about no polarity.

 

[westward10]

What was the prospective fault current at the DB?

None at the moment

 

[Pete999]

pilot error.

See there you go again

 

[telectrix]

i watch too many aircraft crash investigations on nat. geo. that and killer tanks. drives 'er indoors mad coz her idea of living on the edge is emmeroids and constipation street.

 

[Pete999]

i watch too many aircraft crash investigations on nat. geo. that and killer tanks. drives 'er indoors mad coz her idea of living on the edge is emmeroids and constipation street.

Same as my Mrs those two and the Cockney crap on BBC1

 

[Rpa07]

You should be in advertising Pete!

Same as my Mrs those two and the Cockney crap on BBC1

 

[Risteard]

None at the moment

LOL. My point was just that if high fault levels are present then the potential risk of explosion when fitting devices into a live DB may render this a much more dangerous practice than people assume at first glance. Obviously this DB may be further downstream of the origin (we haven't really had any answers yet) but live working like this really is to be avoided - and not just to comply with Health & Safety law!

 

[The Ghost]

Shorted some cables and they went into melt-down, but working live? Hope you are getting 3k a day.

 

[westward10]

LOL. My point was just that if high fault levels are present then the potential risk of explosion when fitting devices into a live DB may render this a much more dangerous practice than people assume at first glance. Obviously this DB may be further downstream of the origin (we haven't really had any answers yet) but live working like this really is to be avoided - and not just to comply with Health & Safety law!

Not quite sure how he managed it on a KQ board don't they all snap into the busbars, thought it would be quite difficult.

 

[LeeH]

Think so, the stab lock type.

Horrible boards.

 

[Andy-1960]

The HSE look on live working as a definite no no. If anything goes wrong you're in court unless you have a very good excuse. I had a discussion with an HSE inspector about working live, he asked when I would consider it.. at the time we were working at Ford in Dagenham on their effluent treatment plant.. a 24/7 process.. if we stopped the effluent plant it would discharge raw effluent into the local water courses, so I gave this as an example..The HSE guys response.. no excuse.. one life or 10,000 fish! So he was basically saying turn it off and face the consequences from the environment agency!!. So the upshot is turn it off!

 

[StephenRowley]

Surely the correct response is to pit in temporary measures to prevent contamination of water courses while work is done

 

[Andy-1960]

Not really an option, effluent plant was huge!

 

[DPG]

Lots of buckets?

 

[David M]

The HSE look on live working as a definite no no. If anything goes wrong you're in court unless you have a very good excuse. I had a discussion with an HSE inspector about working live, he asked when I would consider it.. at the time we were working at Ford in Dagenham on their effluent treatment plant.. a 24/7 process.. if we stopped the effluent plant it would discharge raw effluent into the local water courses, so I gave this as an example..The HSE guys response.. no excuse.. one life or 10,000 fish! So he was basically saying turn it off and face the consequences from the environment agency!!. So the upshot is turn it off!

The problem with the HSE is that they work to conditions that on paper are black & white. If you were to work live in this situation then a more sensible approach is to do a thorough risk assessment. Taking in to account all measures to ensure as much safety as practically possible. You could also argue that your own personal risk is your own responsibility and that its your life to gamble. But I guess you cannot put a price on a life, though insurance companies do

 

[polo1]

The EAWR makes clear the conditions to be met, if we want to work live. Sad truth is many electricians are put under pressure to work live either by customers or employers. Some of us choose to do so as a "short cut", but we should be under no illusion, unless we have documented our live working & met EAWR, if anything goes pear shaped we are well and truly in the s**t.

 

[Pete999]

For my 5 pennys worth, your client says "oh no can't switch any thing off" tell them that you are sorry but you can't d what they ask. Ask them what they would do if someone asked them to do something that, lets be honest is life threatening, would they do it? not bloody likely. if it's not life and limb, walk away, think of your Family, the client wont pay your mortgage, or your Children's up bringing, your car loan, no they will just carry on as if nothing has happened, I have been there, not even worth contemplating.