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Hey guys, I was wondering where if in the BGB or if you have any links you could find some of regulations regarding working live, when you should etc.
As an apprentice, I have already had to work live, so was wondering what the guidelines say about it, the necessity to work live and what should be tried before all options are exhausted.

Thanks
Ethan
 
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more in the EAWR than the BGB., the BGB tells more what you have to do rather than how to do it. and DS, don't try and tell me you ain't never worked live. i for one ain't going to walk down 2 flights of stairs to isolate a lighting circuit just to replace a poxy switch.
 
I think it's in the Electricity at Works Regulations, number 14. Nowt in BGB.

Some will argue this point, Live testing is the same as Live working, in my book, it isn't.
 

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agreed i have worked live on many ocassions...

if you can turn the power off then it should ALWAYS go off.!! even for that light switch!

as an apprentice what did you do when you were working live??

and for the likes of the DNO , agreed they work live but they have all safety equiptment and insulating gloves etc!! the ordinary spark is likely to only have a set of insulated tools!
 
you should never have to work live...!!

Well I`m afraid if something we do means we have to isolate something which affects the process so much it shuts the plant down we have to :/ And equipment can`t be easily put into manual/ bypassed

When you say you have worked live, what work did you do?

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Good job the DNO don't follow that rule.

Well this time which we had to do it we were just wiring a flow switch relay control unit. Which was only 110
But have done it many time and its quite common to happen. On 415 and 230.

Thanks for the info for EAWR and BGB will have a look :)


Also thinking about it I probably work live everyday atleast as when fault finding we have to work live. But that not nessarily as dangerous if you get me not actually coming into close contact with it
 
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If you work live then in theory you are breaking the law as the EAWR is the law and you could be prosecuted against it. Also in this case I think you are guilty until proven not guilty.

In theory live working is only allowed for testing purposes eg. measuring Zs etc.
 
Plant process and continuity is NEVER an excuse to work live...!! Safety of the operative always comes first....

i would like to see ANYBODY stand up in front of a court during a corporate manslaughter case and give the answer "we worked live as it would have cost us more money to shut down the plant"

the only time i worked live "under an official order" was on a nuclear submarine where if we shut the power down it would have affected the control and indication to the plant and we would have had to surface / dock... unfortunately both options were not available due tot he tasking we were on.
 
that's why we have insulated tools . too much namby-pamby H&S these days.
 
If you're working live to minimise the disruption of a planned outage, you're increasing the chance of an unplanned outage, which would be even more inconvenient.
In my book there are very few instances where live working (not including live testing) is acceptable. I can't think of any situations where anyone other than the DNO or other specialist company should be doing it.
 
Yes It was our decision to work live yes, as it of course it would never be backed up by management. "You could have had a plant shut down" Of course we could have done... Sure... Also we do have live working gloves/gauntlets with the over gloves, which we didn't use... (I know I know) by the way in this instance. And what specialist companies are you thinking about Adam W?
 
I dunno really, maybe Network Rail. Or some company who do lines work for the DNO on a subcontract basis.
There's a company around here called HVMS who do something like that.
 
I dunno really, maybe Network Rail. Or some company who do lines work for the DNO on a subcontract basis.
There's a company around here called HVMS who do something like that.

Well, all i can say is that we do (not me personally as i have not had the training) HV switching, and some other quirky stuff, working live etc. So we actually may come under your "specialist company" list
 
Yes It was our decision to work live yes, as it of course it would never be backed up by management. "You could have had a plant shut down" Of course we could have done... Sure... Also we do have live working gloves/gauntlets with the over gloves, which we didn't use... (I know I know) by the way in this instance. And what specialist companies are you thinking about Adam W?

your exact quote above is the whole reason the HSE and health and safety have a field day..... its also the reason why so many people hurt them self trying to find short cuts to save a few minutes...! what would have happened if some one had been electrocuted..? im sure many of your collegues would quickly be out of jobs as management would have thrown the book at you...!

ethan... do as your told/trained to do not as other sparks tell you to do...! follow procedure and always work safe! you get one chance in life dont waste it on some mindless company trying to save a few quid...!!
 
an apprentice should never work live,only sparks with expierence should do that with good reason to work live and have all the tools,gloves etc and a second man with a wooden stick incase it goes wrong.ive seen the dno replace meters and cutouts live and theres always 2 of them one with a stick
 
Well, all i can say is that we do (not me personally as i have not had the training) HV switching, and some other quirky stuff, working live etc. So we actually may come under your "specialist company" list
That was my reasoning behind it - basically people who have had specific training and have specialist equipment to deal with live working, as opposed to an electrician with standard training, using bog standard 1000v insulated tools to change light switches, fittings, maybe sockets, just because they can't be arsed to go downstairs and switch off the power to do it safely, like Telectrix.
 
The thing is why I started this thread, as I`ve not actually been trained about working live, so therefore i don`t really understand what is allowable? Im an apprentice and college isn`t helpful at times, for instance I know how to use a step ladder safely but never told the rules on working live... In this instance the reason we worked live is that is was 110V, tiny instrument and the guy i was working with is pretty old school :p But yes i do understand where you are coming from and that you should never work live for processes sake. Also that not using the gloves part seems silly but I thought Id be honest.

Ethan
 
You are not allowed to work live ESPECIALLY as an apprentice!

Health & safety gone bonkers or not, THIS is where YOU need to take responsibility of your actions.

What does the company method statement say regarding the work you carry out? You have read and signed it I presume?

If college found out you were LIVE Working they should pull the plug on your placement as the company you are working for are not teaching you correctly.

Live testing and Live working are completely different.

I'm with DS all the way on this one.

Yes I have done similar to Tel in the past BUT there is no way on this earth if I had an apprentice working with me they would be allowed to do the same. In fact, If I had an apprentice "I" wouldn't have done it in the first place because I wouldn't want to encourage bad practice.

It sounds like you're life is potentially at risk at the moment and your questions need to be answered. Does the company you work for have it's own Health & Safety representative? If so I would advise you ask them the questions you have asked on here. DO NOT SAY that YOU HAVE done it just ask for confirmation of the procedure of live working/testing ;)

Stay safe:thumbsup
 

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