Customer wiring own electrics

[Sb8389]

Hey guys
Went to a customer today who wanted some electrical work looking at. Turned up and he showed me a granny annexe he had wired himself. (He has assured me he has 30years experience in the industry) he now wants it testing and certifying and a part p certificate issuing. I’m not comfortable with putting my name to the install and doing an electrical installation certificate. What would you do in this situation and what are his options.

 

[Andy78]

How are the Napit/Stroma 3rd Party certifiers covered, if they’re only testing and notifying the work without seeing how it was installed? Do Napit/Stroma exempt their 3rd party notifier contractors from any prosecution etc?

Both schemes insist that the third party signer is present from before the job commences. They must produce the design, inspect all cable routes at first fix, inspect at second fix and perform all testing.

For the record Stroma, my chosen scheme, say they only offer this service as the government request this through the requirements of the building regulations, but they don't encourage use of the third party scheme at all.

 

[DPG]

How are the Napit/Stroma 3rd Party certifiers covered, if they’re only testing and notifying the work without seeing how it was installed? Do Napit/Stroma exempt their 3rd party notifier contractors from any prosecution etc?

But they should be seeing it at the install stage.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Im now going to throw me hat in this ring , i agree with some sparks have put here ,this third party testing are they insurance covering it ,me dont thinks so ,either do EICR for him or walk .

 

[davesparks]

An EICR should not be used to certify new work, this is made clear in bs7671.

You could carry out the inspection and testing and and issue an EIC with the customers details and signature in the design and construction sections, you would only sign for inspection and testing.
But I wouldn't notify it for part P through a scheme, leave it for the customer to deal with building control directly.

 

[The Ghost]

To be honest if the guy was genuinely in the trade 30 years he should know it is a legal requirement to inform BC at least 48hrs prior to starting work. The fact he has not would already make a lie of what he is saying. As stated by @Dustydazzler third party requires being in at the beginning and design as well as first fix and dead tests as you go. Stroma are very strict about this and have their own form for 3rd party and effectively you have to sign you have complied with their requirements. So no retrospective sign off is possible via that route.

 

[FatAlan]

Can't see the problem if you are able to closely supervise the design, install with access to all aspects and test. You can then safely say its your installation....you wouldn't if it was a lash up. Similar to supervising a mate or apprentice.. presumably? There will be varying levels of competence and if its not there you'll be effectively doing the installation yourself due to the work involved in checking, testing and correcting and... charging accordingly

 

[andyb]

An EICR should not be used to certify new work, this is made clear in bs7671.

You could carry out the inspection and testing and and issue an EIC with the customers details and signature in the design and construction sections, you would only sign for inspection and testing.
But I wouldn't notify it for part P through a scheme, leave it for the customer to deal with building control directly.

No one’s suggesting that an EICR can be used to certify work Dave (at least I'm not)
But what you can't do is issue an EIC now, that bird has already flown.
All that you can do is, at the client’s request, undertake an electrical inspection and issue an EICR. What the client does with it is entirely up to him.

 

[FatAlan]

What about the issuing of an EICR for a CU change? You inspect and test the whole installation which you haven't designed and installed?

 

[buzzlightyear]

from the custmers thinking can some give me a get out of jail card.
Im sick and tired of this goverment
and the ones before eat of the land Prescott not informing the country about it insead of Chinese wispers.

 

[buzzlightyear]

What about the issuing of an EICR for a CU change? You inspect and test the whole installation which you haven't designed and installed?

what is the point in that .

 

[Pete999]

What about the issuing of an EICR for a CU change? You inspect and test the whole installation which you haven't designed and installed?

You test, yes, inspect what you can see, yes, but you can't inspect the wiring in it's entirety because most of it is under the floor or buried, plus how can you be sure that the installation has been installed correctly? the answer is simple you can't.
An EICR is recommended prior to a CU change but on completion of the CU change an EIC will be required in my opinion.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Fat alan , i would not do any thing regarding any work carried out by some one unless its me own work.cant see it walk away .

 

[Charlie_]

In this situation I would do the testing side of the EIC and sign it as such..
The designer and installer would sign his section..
Submit certificate to building control

 

[DPG]

In this situation I would do the testing side of the EIC and sign it as such..
The designer and installer would sign his section..

Designer - now, where's the 'optimistic' emoji?

 

[Charlie_]

Designer - now, where's the 'optimistic' emoji?

If the guy has 30yrs experience but isn’t registered with a scheme..
What’s the issue with him being the designer?

 

[DPG]

If the guy has 30yrs experience but isn’t registered with a scheme..
What’s the issue with him being the designer?

You're probably right - I just got the impression he may have been winging it a bit and doing it on the cheap. But then I'm quite cynical me

 

[Spoon]

You're probably right - I just got the impression he may have been winging it a bit and doing it on the cheap. But then I'm quite cynical me

It's this forum.. Brings the worse out in us... I blame all the electricians who are on holiday all the time...

 

[RWJ]

You could get this bloke in does NICEIC third party certs.

 

[davesparks]

No one’s suggesting that an EICR can be used to certify work Dave (at least I'm not)
But what you can't do is issue an EIC now, that bird has already flown.
All that you can do is, at the client’s request, undertake an electrical inspection and issue an EICR. What the client does with it is entirely up to him.

Why can't an EIC be issued? The model form for the EIC allows for seperate designer, installer and tester, you can complete the EIC as tester only with the customers details for designer and installer. What you can't do is notify it under your own scheme registration.

But you know that the customer will try to use the EICR I place of an EIC which is clearly wrong.
What would you put as the reason for carrying out the EICR? Or the estimated age of the installation? If you put the correct age of the installation it will be pretty obvious to anyone that something dodgy is going on.

 

[Toneyz]

You test, yes, inspect what you can see, yes, but you can't inspect the wiring in it's entirety because most of it is under the floor or buried, plus how can you be sure that the installation has been installed correctly? the answer is simple you can't.
An EICR is recommended prior to a CU change but on completion of the CU change an EIC will be required in my opinion.

And just to add to Pete's post regarding C.U. change, there is a part for comments on the existing installation on the EIC