EICR - PLASTIC CONSUMER UNIT CODE C2 or C3

[CHRIS GINNAW]

After your thoughts on EICR coding for an existing plastic consumer unit in an under stairs cupboard, firstly in a standard domestic dwelling and secondly in a house of multiple occupancy.
After discussing this others and with tech helplines seems to be a bit of a split as to what code!

 

[The Ghost]

C3

 

[Octopus]

Is it even a code?

Tin hat on

 

[mattg4321]

An insulated consumer unit in good condition is never ever a C2. Anyone who codes it as such is a chancer IMO.

I generally don't code them unless they are in an understairs cupboard. Begrudgingly I would normally the code it C3 in line with guidance

 

[MDJ]

A nothing, there are 100s of thousands all over the UK, lets be serious here.

 

[CHRIS GINNAW]

Is this an EICR you are doing or one that has been passed to you. If the former then may be you should consider that after discussing it with others, using tech helpline and now a forum you should find another aspect of your trade.

And your thoughts on this? That was all I was asking for!

 

[MJPD29]

No code at all

 

[westward10]

An insulated consumer unit in good condition is never ever a C2. Anyone who codes it as such is a chancer IMO.

I generally don't code them unless they are in an understairs cupboard. Begrudgingly I would normally the code it C3 in line with guidance

What guidance.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Supposed to be a C3 if under the stairs?

 

[Octopus]

What guidance.

Best practice guide No 4

 

[westward10]

Supposed to be a C3 if under the stairs?

Where does it state that in BS7671.

 

[Octopus]

Best practice guide No 4

Why is that funny Westward 10 ?

 

[westward10]

Why is that funny Westward 10 ?

It just is, I have visions of all these incompetent people carrying out Periodics whilst at the same time flicking through a Guide telling them how to do it. Imagine being at the dentist for a root canal and they have the Best Practice Guide for root canal methods propped up on the side.

 

[Octopus]

It just is, I have visions of all these incompetent people carrying out Periodics whilst at the same time flicking through a Guide telling them how to do it. Imagine being at the dentist for a root canal and they have the Best Practice Guide for root canal methods propped up on the side.

The people that write this guide should be allowed to write BS 7671 as its to the point and includes decent examples.

I suggest end users read it .....

 

[The Ghost]

All you are saying with a C3 is that a significant improvement to safety can be acheived by in this case making the surrounds or consumer unit fireproof. Personally I feel if it is under a stairs an important escape route could be compromised if a fire started under it. I don't know about you but I would not be happy with that potential risk in my home especially with kids about, being serious for a moment!

 

[Spoon]

Best practice guide No 4

What does it say in the Best Practice Guide No 4 about plastic CU's?
Are we not working to BS7671?
I can't find anywhere in BS7671 that states we should refer to Best Practice Guides.
As stated above, there are thousands of plastic CU's. To code them for just being plastic is wrong IMO.
If you are going to code plastic CU's then you have to code surface mounted cables that don't have adequate support against a fire.

 

[westward10]

I do Code cables on escape routes without suitable support.

 

[CHRIS GINNAW]

It just is, I have visions of all these incompetent people carrying out Periodics whilst at the same time flicking through a Guide telling them how to do it. Imagine being at the dentist for a root canal and they have the Best Practice Guide for root canal methods propped up on the side.

Mr Westward10,
I had a discussion with some friends (all experienced electricians) on this and there were different views. So we called 2 different tech lines to ask theirs, again there were different views. So thought that I would register again (after about 5 years away) with The Electricians Forum just to see what other tradesmen views were. Just to start a discussion!
So I just wondered what your opinion actually was and maybe why?

 

[Andy78]

What does it say in the Best Practice Guide No 4 about plastic CU's?
Are we not working to BS7671?
I can't find anywhere in BS7671 that states we should refer to Best Practice Guides.
As stated above, there are thousands of plastic CU's. To code them for just being plastic is wrong IMO.
If you are going to code plastic CU's then you have to code surface mounted cables that don't have adequate support against a fire.

The guide recommends C3 in individual dwellings and C2 in communal areas of larger shared dwellings for this issue.

This guide is contributed to and endorsed by the IET and BSI among others.

 

[westward10]

These Guides can lead to narrow minded thinking as opposed to using your knowledge to judge each scenario on its own merits.

 

[Spoon]

OK, if people are coding these things then come January I presume you will be coding any circuit that doesn't have an AFDD fitted to it?

 

[Octopus]

What does it say in the Best Practice Guide No 4 about plastic CU's?
Are we not working to BS7671?
I can't find anywhere in BS7671 that states we should refer to Best Practice Guides.
As stated above, there are thousands of plastic CU's. To code them for just being plastic is wrong IMO.
If you are going to code plastic CU's then you have to code surface mounted cables that don't have adequate support against a fire.

BS 7671 AMD 3 does nothing to clear up the farce of metal CUs

My first response on this thread offers up my thoughts

 

[Nigel]

An insulated consumer unit in good condition is never ever a C2. Anyone who codes it as such is a chancer IMO.

I generally don't code them unless they are in an understairs cupboard. Begrudgingly I would normally the code it C3 in line with guidance

This post is a complete contradiction.

 

[Andy78]

These Guides can lead to narrow minded thinking as opposed to using your knowledge to judge each scenario on its own merits.

I agree with that train of thought. I think the reasoning behind the guide is an attempt to standardise coding of common issues what with any bugger let loose on inspections these days.
I fully agree that each situation is a unique judgement call as to the perceived hazard or danger though.

 

[Nigel]

Where does it state that in BS7671.

Where does it state any coding guidance in BS7671?

 

[Nigel]

OK, if people are coding these things then come January I presume you will be coding any circuit that doesn't have an AFDD fitted to it?

Not yet as the Reg is too washy. But as soon as it is cleared up then it will be a C3 for me.

 

[Nigel]

What does it say in the Best Practice Guide No 4 about plastic CU's?
Are we not working to BS7671?
I can't find anywhere in BS7671 that states we should refer to Best Practice Guides.
As stated above, there are thousands of plastic CU's. To code them for just being plastic is wrong IMO.
If you are going to code plastic CU's then you have to code surface mounted cables that don't have adequate support against a fire.

Which I would do.

 

[Nigel]

For me it is a C3. I would not install them in a new installation so in my opinion improvement is recommended but it is not unsafe.

 

[Des 56]

All you are saying with a C3 is that a significant improvement to safety can be acheived by in this case making the surrounds or consumer unit fireproof. Personally I feel if it is under a stairs an important escape route could be compromised if a fire started under it. I don't know about you but I would not be happy with that potential risk in my home especially with kids about, being serious for a moment!

Whilst the inclusion of metal boards has reduced fire risk (for whatever the actual reason plastics suddenly became a risk)

The number of incidents of molten dist boards (when installed correctly) must be minuscule,the potential risk would reflect that
Life is full of risk,its good to reduce that risk but lets not go over the top
If the board is installed correctly and/or correctly inspected, the risk is likely to be as low as its ever going to be compared to a new one even if it were made from asbestos

 

[rolyberkin]

My view on this as you are giving someone a professional opinion on their installation as of the date of inspection. I would therefore give a C3 whatever the location. A metal consumer unit would now be fitted if this was a new build property and therefore an improvement could be made/recommended. Should there be a fire within the CU/house at a later date and it was not contained and caused damage or serious injury or death the owner/householder/insurer/courts could state that you did not draw to their attention that this was an area where improvement could have been made to their installation. Cables in escape routes are not normally visible so would surely be a lim. An old boss of mine always used to say to me, when you make a decision you should firstly consider what it would read like on the front page of the Sun or when reported in the local news when it all goes horribly wrong!