Ethics around EICR

[7029 dave]

The easiest solution, would be any property put up for sale an EICR is compulsory, therefore any defects will be rectified by the vendor, basically the same as in the rental sector.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Home condition report anyone?

 

[pirate]

As you may know, Scotland has had a Home Report system in place for some years, and it is a completely different beast from the one trialled in England. It has largely been successful, but of course the RICS have ensured that the standard format contains limitations and exceptions which protect the surveyor who carries out the Survey section of the Home Report.
The preamble to the Survey includes this:

SERVICES Surveyors are not equipped or qualified to test the services and therefore no comment can be interpreted as implying that the design, installation and function of the services are in accordance/compliance with regulations, safety and efficiency expectations. However, comment is made where there is cause to suspect significant defects or shortcomings with the installations. No tests are made of any services or appliances.

An example of the Surveyors report might be this:

Electricity:
Accessible parts of the wiring were visually inspected without removing fittings. No tests whatsoever were carried out to the system or appliances. Visual inspection does not assess any services to make sure they work properly and efficiently and meet modern standards. If any services are turned off, the surveyor will state that in the report and will not turn them on.

The property has a 13-amp mains supply with a White Meter circuit.
Wiring fusegear is located in the deep hall cupboard.
Accessible parts of the wiring were visually inspected without removing fittings. No tests whatsoever were carried out to the system or appliances. Visual inspection does not assess any services to make sure they work properly and efficiently and meet modern standards. If any services are turned off, the surveyor will state that in the report and will not turn them on.

Accordingly, the Survey is of little use in determining the state of the electrical installation. This is fair enough, as surveyors are not qualified electricians, and it is not their job to comment on the installation, except that some will make a point of recommending testing of a clearly dated system.

As it currently stands, The Home Report is very useful as it contains a Questionnaire, an EPC, a Survey and a Valuation. However, what is needed is an EICR on top, just as is required for rented houses.

One clear advantage of the EICR for rentals is that reputable Estate Agents and Lawyers will not market a rental property and complete the lease documentation without seeing the Gas and Electrical certificates as well as some other paperwork that is not of concern here. To be clear, I am not sure exactly what level of inspection is currently required, but experience has shown that Landlords will get defects sorted if brought to their attention....or...they will go underground and use less reputable agents todo the paperwork, or do it themselves. As always, you get good landlords and bad ones. While there has been considerable success in promoting safe rental properties, rogue landlords will always exist.

 

[littlespark]

@pirate ; A “13A mains supply”?

Is that just to show surveyors don’t know what they’re talking about when it comes to services?


I bought and then sold a house a few years ago to rent out.... the home report said “bare cables at back of under stair cupboard”
They weren’t bare.... it was the back of a dry lining box for a socket in the kitchen... there was just no plasterboard in the cupboard side of the walls. Easy fix.
He also mentioned the wood burner that ran the radiators... it was even marketed by the estate agent as a positive having this burner. Got someone in to check it and they condemned it!

 

[nicebutdim]

Not sure I agree with the idea of mandatory EICRs for homes being sold, but I certainly believe that it's immoral to keep details of potentially dangerous issues from home owners when inspection is paid for by a 3rd party.

 

[UNG]

This is one of those interesting conundrums that puts you between a rock and a hard place

So you do an EICR or the buyer and you find some C1 issues, the question then is do you have a duty of care to inform the homeowner or do you just leave site and pass the results of the EICR to the buyer

Looking at the wider issue so another third party visits site to check something else for the buyer and receives a shock or is seriously injured as a result of the electrical issues you found but you only informed the buyer, you were the last electrician on site...... where is the finger of blame going to point and how is the law going to view your actions if it goes legal

I think I would obligated to inform the seller and depending on the remedial action needed if it is very minor fix it or agree a price if more major repairs are needed to make it safe

 

[pirate]

@littlespark just to confirm, I lifted that verbatim from a genuine Home Report Survey.
It does indeed show that the surveyor knows not a lot about electrical stuff...but of course he isn't an expert in that field.
I have seen surveys where the surveyor has commented that the fusebox looks very old and hanging off the wall, so checks should be carried out, but that's as far as they are allowed to go.

 

[brianmoooore]

Surveyors aren't alwaysany good at other aspects of their job, either.
Best one I ever came across was in a terraced house, where the lofts between the houses weren't separated to modern standards.
"Loft appears to contain large quantities of animal faeces (probably feral cats)"
I was intrigued by this when I went to size up the rewire for the new owners, so went too look for myself. "Faeces" were fillets of mortar holding the slates that had dropped down from the battens.
Sadly, I never did get to do that rewire. The new owners left a message on my 'phone the following week, asking if I could have a look at their washing machine. Before I had even replied, the owner had been discovered dead on her knees behind the machine with its rear cover removed. She had been trying to refit the belt on the large pulley, and had touched the live terminal on the heater element, which is typically just below the rim of the pulley.

 

[nicebutdim]

Not how I was expecting that post to end, but pretty much what concerned me about the past weekend's extractor fan thread.

 

[FatAlan]

Paid about £750 for a full survey on my current place. Produced a nice glossy brochure and was full a caveats and get out clauses. Stated the obvious with no real investigation. Missed the fact that two main roof ties were shot to bits with woodworm so ended up putting a new roof on. Went into it knowing it was a project but wondering what I got for my money on the survey.