Hi All, Quick intro and thinking of a career change, so need some advice

[JAWS]

I have just looked on their website Godzilla and I cannot find the course code whether the course is EAL, or City and Guilds 2365 or 8202.

The 2365 I know you can start on the level 2 ( rules may be different in wales but I doubt it), so I am wondering whether or not its the EAL or 8202 where the criteria may be different.

Either course will get you the same qualification.

 

[Zerax]

I've said it several times on this illustrious forum, but the whole qualification structure needs to be scrapped and re-worked. We need a coherent, logical format that allows multiple entry points for all and properly tests candidates abilities.

And don't forget that some of these modern courses were designed to keep the NEETs figures down... (Not in Education, Employment or Training).

 

[godzilla]

The college did not give much info at all expect I had to start at level 1.

I poped into Cardiff to a local training centre and this morning and was given this information (waiting for the 2365 2/3 email and costs).

Options with them were as follows.

TRAINING
This course will gain you the highest level 3 qualification with City & Guilds & EAL.

The Essential Electrics is 6 weeks: Cardiff or 12 Weekends
· EAL 600/7695/1 level 3- Installing, Testing and Ensuring Compliance of Electrical Installations in Dwellings
· 18th Edition Wiring Regulations (2382)
- EAL Part P Building Regulation
Price: £2850 inc VAT & Fees.

Essential Electrics Plus is 6 weeks: Cardiff or 14 Weekends
Will also give you 2 further qualifications in addition to those above:
· Fundamental Inspection & Testing (2392) level 2
· PAT Testing (2377-22/32 ) including management.
Price: £3850 inc VAT & Fees.

Advanced Electrics is 7 Weeks Training: Cardiff or 14 Weekends (Plus 5 days, 1 week fulltime week Mon-Fri)
This course benefits from all of the above qualifications along with the sought after Level 3 Inspection & Testing (2391-52) Initial Verification & Periodics
This qualification is City & Guilds and allows you to sign work off of others, issue ECIR reports , Landlord certifications and is also a QS qualification in the industry
Price: £4500.00 inc VAT & Fees.

From what I have learned here,

There are courses that are a wasye of money or the Certs gained, in the bigger scheme of things won't add to much.

I need to sieve through all the above to see, what is actually any good or does C/G 2365 2/3 is the ones to do, I think that's about 6K in costs.

Zerax, you are right, its a whole mess, I never come across this before in qualifications.

I've said it several times on this illustrious forum, but the whole qualification structure needs to be scrapped and re-worked. We need a coherent, logical format that allows multiple entry points for all and properly tests candidates abilities.

And don't forget that some of these modern courses were designed to keep the NEETs figures down... (Not in Education, Employment or Training).

 

[JAWS]

Yep All those above Godzilla are additional qualifications which will normally be taking after completing your level 2 and 3 2365/8202 or those who already work within the industry

 

[godzilla]

Funny thing is I went to the Cardiff True Tech to ask about the 2365 2/3 and they sent me the info, I listed above.

I did speak to one of the main persons', who give me the pathway info from 2365 and said it gonna cost about 6.5-9K+, if I went on to the NVQ AM2 and look to complete the full qualified route. i will hold off until I get their 2365 info by email.

But all the above reads like a midlife crisis cost, but with no roadster on the drive!

Even, if I get my head around their advance electrics course, their handful of qualifications don't even explain, if that's worth a 2365 level 2 or you move straight onto the 2365 level 3!

I will keep on researching on the 2365 and see if i can get a couple of quotes together at the same time. This will hopefully narrow down a course which offers value for money.

My cousin's reply was become a drone pilot, its cheaper!!

Yep All those above Godzilla are additional qualifications which will normally be taking after completing your level 2 and 3 2365/8202 or those who already work within the industry

 

[Mark68]

i went through career change in mid 40's goal posts have changed a few times since i started wiring regs are the biggest pain in the arse with the regular updates i have done the 2365 route it's expensive but when you are working and studying it was the only way to do it i know a few sparky's in south wales who recommend xs training said they were very helpful through their course i think they are based in cwmbran watch out for some of these fast track courses they are not what they advertise and you may end up paying for stuff you don't need i would recommend the full scope course over the domestic installers course as it covers commercial and domestic work and it is not as easy to find work for experience in the domestic side.

 

[godzilla]

Cheers Mark,

I will see where this XS Training is based in Cwmbran, the only one I could find is based in Yorkshire. Cwmbran is only a couple of junctions away from me.

Yes, the fast track stuff has so many certs, when you read them, half don't make any sense as their structure does not tell you that you are on route to the full qualifications.

That's why I have started to look at 2365 only!

Another problem I have, I still have school runs and that's a major pain for some daytime courses and will be juggling act.

Cheers for the input.

i went through career change in mid 40's goal posts have changed a few times since i started wiring regs are the biggest pain in the arse with the regular updates i have done the 2365 route it's expensive but when you are working and studying it was the only way to do it i know a few sparky's in south wales who recommend xs training said they were very helpful through their course i think they are based in cwmbran watch out for some of these fast track courses they are not what they advertise and you may end up paying for stuff you don't need i would recommend the full scope course over the domestic installers course as it covers commercial and domestic work and it is not as easy to find work for experience in the domestic side.

 

[JAWS]

You ever thought about going down the Domestic installer route Godzilla? Or have you got your heart set on working on the industrial/commercial sector hence why you want to go the 2365, I&T, Am2, NVQ route.

 

[godzilla]

HI Jaws,

I have thought about the domestic side alot, but I am really keen to break into the Solar, EV and Green Energy sector. I know that industry will fully exploded in about 3-5 years time.

My Degree was Geology and Environmental Pollution Sci - so I have dipped in and out of the 'world is going to end' science and renewables energy for the last 25 years (yes, we should of gone green back in the 70's, the tipping point we past yonks ago)!

My wife worked as a inhouse lawyer for a green solar/wind company a few years back, some great stories of the work that is going on and sparks and tech they need in that industry is growing.

So thought, I better get fully qualified and be trained up, if I can find the best route. The Solar and EV servicing side will open up a avenue, and is a sector I have a interest in! Also fully qualified in that sector opens the industry for all types of work.

Reading this site like mad and the costs involved with domestic is about 3-4K!

So, where I am still confused, the Cardiff place offered this..

""Advanced Electrics is 7 Weeks Training: Cardiff or 14 Weekends (Plus 5 days, 1 week fulltime week Mon-Fri)
This course benefits from all of the above qualifications along with the sought after Level 3 Inspection & Testing (2391-52) Initial Verification & Periodics
This qualification is City & Guilds and allows you to sign work off of others, issue ECIR reports , Landlord certifications and is also a QS qualification in the industry
Price: £4500.00 inc VAT & Fees.""

But, with this do I still need to go onto the 2365 2 or 3, so that's another £6K. This extra cost is before, I go on again further (this is where they were a little vague, what route after their advance course).

Tradeskills have their 5 steps, but again you are about 3-4k in before they say, you need to do the 2365 2 top up and then the level 3 2365, the costs pile and you end up with pile of certificates!

Everyone here on this thread have given their advice, helped me check the replies I have had to date and offered some great points.

Most have said go straight into 2365 2/3 as that covers bits or most of them ( in domestic) and then pick and chose any top up certs as you go!

In a bit of a crossroads as few people have mentioned its a right mish mash and every company has got too many flowerly sugar coated names for their courses.

So stuck at 2365 2/3 straight away ot get into industry, but there is the dom route, but that's a lump of a cost, but you still need to go much further to get fully qualified!

The worse thing is, I will need to use savings to fund it, I can't any funding help either! So, more pressure to make the right choice!

You ever thought about going down the Domestic installer route Godzilla? Or have you got your heart set on working on the industrial/commercial sector hence why you want to go the 2365, I&T, Am2, NVQ route.

 

[JAWS]

On the 5 steps to become an electrician on the Trades skills website is not quite correct, its their sales pitch as you don't need step 1 or step 2 as step 1 and step 2 will all be learned in your level 2.

As for the 2391-52 that they offered you I am 95% sure that this course is not in place to teach you how to inspect & test, they are not there to show you how to use a tester etc, nor safe isolation, testing single phase, 3ph etc etc you should already know all this, they're there solely to examine your competence/skill knowledge to make sure you know what you're doing.

To learn how to use testers, safe isolation, initial verification etc etc you would go on the C&G 2392 testing course or a Domestic installer course where the 2392 will be chucked in with it or you'll do the 2365 to which it will all be learned on there too.

 

[godzilla]

As you state, too much sales pitch, redoing work and fancy names that just confuse the hell out of you.

I am guessing in a nutshell, its straight to a 2365 level 2 and cut out all this sales pitch fast track stuff.

Its almost like they take you in one direction, but after you have done it, you still need to come back as you are not even close to fully qualifiy

So now, 2365 level 2, but with which company, cheapest, close by, online etc etc.

I guess, I now know the route, its defo 2365 level 2!

On the 5 steps to become an electrician on the Trades skills website is not quite correct, its their sales pitch as you don't need step 1 or step 2 as step 1 and step 2 will all be learned in your level 2.

As for the 2391-52 that they offered you I am 95% sure that this course is not in place to teach you how to inspect & test, they are not there to show you how to use a tester etc, nor safe isolation, testing single phase, 3ph etc etc you should already know all this, they're there solely to examine your competence/skill knowledge to make sure you know what you're doing.

To learn how to use testers, safe isolation, initial verification etc etc you would go on the C&G 2392 testing course or a Domestic installer course where the 2392 will be chucked in with it or you'll do the 2365 to which it will all be learned on there too.

 

[godzilla]

Great news,

The centre I went to check out came back with a detailed summary and a good breakdown on their structure. Its a bit long winded (deleted some longer winded bits) as it lists everything they do and offer, but its a good guide.

""City & Guilds 2365 Course Content:
This course covers a range of training methods and you will learn both hands on installation skills in our purpose built workshops as well as the theory and science behind electrics. This is the most comprehensive electrician course available and there is a large amount of practical training on specialist skills including but not limited to:
Commercial and Domestic installation
3 phase systems Armoured cable Pipe Bending Techniques Steel Conduit Trunking""

""This course package covers both the level 2 and level 3 qualifications. Course content is as follows:
Level 2 Diploma in Electrical Installations
Electrical Installations Technology – Mainly theory Based
Principles of Electrical Science - Mainly theory Based
Installation of Wiring Systems and enclosures – Practical & Theory Training
Health and Safety in Building Services Engineering - Practical & Theory Training
Understand how to communicate with others within Building Services Engineering - Practical & Theory Training .
Level 3 Diploma in Electrical Installations
Health and Safety in Building Services Engineering - Practical & Theory Training
Principles of Electrical Science - Mainly theory Based
Electrical Installations :Inspection, Testing and Commissioning - Practical & Theory Training
Electrical Installations: Fault Diagnosis and Rectification - Practical & Theory Training
Understand the fundamental principles and requirements of environmental technology systems - Mainly theory Based
Electrical Systems design - Practical & Theory Training
Career awareness in building services engineering - Mainly theory Based

""As a specialist electrical training centre we have the state of the art training areas specifically for the modules you will be studying. If your course module requires hands on learning you will be in a workshop, if it requires classroom based learning you will be taught in dedicated classrooms with the latest interactive smart boards. We also have specialist classrooms with both workshop and classroom space for subjects like Inspection and Testing. Throughout the course you will be assessed by a range of methods including online exams, practical assessments and written assignments.""

2365 Level 2 Exams & Assessments
201 Health and Safety in Building Services Engineering – Multiple choice exam plus one practical assignment
202 Principles of Electrical Science - Multiple choice exam
203 Electrical Installations Technology – Multiple choice exam
204 Installation of Wiring Systems and enclosures – Practical assignment and supplementary questions
210 Understand how to communicate with others within Building Services Engineering - Multiple choice exam.
2365 Level 3 Exams & Assessments
301 Understand the fundamental principles and requirements of environmental technology systems – Multiple choice exam
302 Principles of Electrical Science - Practical assignment and written paper
303 Electrical installations: fault diagnosis and rectification - Practical task and multiple choice exam
304 Electrical Installations: Inspection, Testing and Commissioning - Practical tasks, written paper and multiple choice exam
305 Electrical Systems Design - Assignment and multiple choice exam
308 Career awareness in building services engineering - One theory Assignment

The level 2 & 3 training is 16 weeks in total
The cost for the training is : £6000.00 inc vat .( If booked together £5750)

You will also need to complete the 18th Edition Wiring Regulations ( 2382-18)
The course is a 3 day course and is a cost of £350.00 inc vat .

Once this has been completed you would need to complete your NVQ portfolio (2357 ) This is done by completing the portfolio with a qualified electrician on site ( You have to source the Electrician ) .
(The cost for the NVQ 2357) is £1395.00 inc vat

After completing the above you would need to attend a AM2 centre and complete the AM2 training , There are many centres based around the country and general costs are in-between £450- £750.00 for a 2 -3 day course .""


Apart from members from here - this is the best breakdown, I have had to date!

Any thoughts on overall value?

 

[stokielee]

I can compare it with my local college for the same course, i paid £1800 for the level 2 2365 and £3345 for the level 3. As for the 18th edition you could just sit the exam after you've done some online revision and practice tests then it'll be around £120 for the test only

 

[godzilla]

Cheers @stokielee

Was the 2/3 over the 2 years, I think you mentioned it!

So the price is pretty close

I can compare it with my local college for the same course, i paid £1800 for the level 2 2365 and £3345 for the level 3. As for the 18th edition you could just sit the exam after you've done some online revision and practice tests then it'll be around £120 for the test only

 

[stokielee]

Yes, one year for level 2 and one year for level 3

Cheers @stokielee

Was the 2/3 over the 2 years, I think you mentioned it!

So the price is pretty close

 

[JAWS]

Yes, one year for level 2 and one year for level 3

Yeah ours was twice a week for the level 2 first year and the same for level 3. One day classroom the other day practical

 

[godzilla]

Cool,

I guess, by the time you cram all those days into weeks, it most likely works out the same.

Next thing is to decide which body part to sell to cough up 5.8K! I know, they said they have installment plans, but those will only run for the course length, so does not really help!

Funding it aside, my biggest problem is the school runs and getting to the centre and back during their teaching times. In the grand scheme of things, it minor, but will be a huge change/committment for the family.

So, my next steps in readiness to plan all this - what will be my go to section on this forum to get 2365 help, guides, info, notes etc. etc to help prepare and pass first time?

But, first off tomorrow, there is a college in Cardiff, that is doing some very basic beginners courses in home electrics. Going to join them, just to get a feel of what tools used and teaching styles to expect. Its a different setup, but the idea's the same. They start in November and they also have some H&S courses, that are 1 or 2 day jobs. These should keep me going until next year!

Cheers once again for all the advice, totally priceless

Yes, one year for level 2 and one year for level 3

Yeah ours was twice a week for the level 2 first year and the same for level 3. One day classroom the other day practical

 

[Mark68]

I'm not 100% on this as i personally haven't used xs training but i was told by someone who had used them it was based in cwmbran college. i was thinking of using them in the future once the training I'm doing is finished as I'm not far from them. i know true tech training in cardiff use them for some of their exams.
[automerge]1599749782[/automerge]
the training company i use uses err training ltd for everything they have been really good the last i heard it about £7500 for full scope course which included your exams alot more than i paid with them but it has taken me alot longer as i have to travel and stay at hotels but i have enjoyed the training even though it has been stressful at times. i have been working on sites for last 2 years which has been hard work most of that has been without direct supervision once they know you can get on and do the work you get left to get on with it but you do have to do some of the crap work aswell work has been few and far between this year but I'm determined to finish as soon as training centre is open.
[automerge]1599750744[/automerge]

Cheers Mark,

I will see where this XS Training is based in Cwmbran, the only one I could find is based in Yorkshire. Cwmbran is only a couple of junctions away from me.

Yes, the fast track stuff has so many certs, when you read them, half don't make any sense as their structure does not tell you that you are on route to the full qualifications.

That's why I have started to look at 2365 only!

Another problem I have, I still have school runs and that's a major pain for some daytime courses and will be juggling act.

Cheers for the input.

their head office is in yorkshire. they are a national training provider i would speak to them i think they do pay as you train that is how i done it with my training provider you will find alot of the training providers have bad reputation which is sometimes not warranted the one i use probably has worst rep which made me concerned but the training centre has been really good and should not reflect on them for sometimes bad admin from customer support try and get info from someone who has been with the training company and finished the course before writing them off some people think if they pay for a course that they should walk out with a certificate for just turning up that idswhere alot of the bad reviews come from.

 

[godzilla]

HI Mark,

Many thanks for the info.

True tech courses start in 2021 and I have them in my radar for the 2365, but a freind just mentioned to me that the EAL Dip in elec., installations level 2 should still be avaiable in some colleges nearby and I should keep on trying incase a part time evening place comes up!

So, thought no harm to recheck all the colleges incase something does come up (my local, 10mins away, refused point blank).

Some of the other colleges, might turn out to be 2x 50miles round trips per week and a year to complete, instead of the crash course, but again, no harm to check them all including cwmbran college.

Thanks for the heads up on the costs too! Looks like a sizable ball part figure for all 2365 2/3 costs, so can't really do much about that either.

On the reviews, you are right, its a mixed bag, so will need to do my own research, that's why I went to true tech in person to check them out.

Once again, I will update once all the other colleges in the area come back, oddly enough Barry college, has not emailed me back!

I'm not 100% on this as i personally haven't used xs training but i was told by someone who had used them it was based in cwmbran college. i was thinking of using them in the future once the training I'm doing is finished as I'm not far from them. i know true tech training in cardiff use them for some of their exams.
[automerge]1599749782[/automerge]
the training company i use uses err training ltd for everything they have been really good the last i heard it about £7500 for full scope course which included your exams alot more than i paid with them but it has taken me alot longer as i have to travel and stay at hotels but i have enjoyed the training even though it has been stressful at times. i have been working on sites for last 2 years which has been hard work most of that has been without direct supervision once they know you can get on and do the work you get left to get on with it but you do have to do some of the crap work aswell work has been few and far between this year but I'm determined to finish as soon as training centre is open.
[automerge]1599750744[/automerge]

their head office is in yorkshire. they are a national training provider i would speak to them i think they do pay as you train that is how i done it with my training provider you will find alot of the training providers have bad reputation which is sometimes not warranted the one i use probably has worst rep which made me concerned but the training centre has been really good and should not reflect on them for sometimes bad admin from customer support try and get info from someone who has been with the training company and finished the course before writing them off some people think if they pay for a course that they should walk out with a certificate for just turning up that idswhere alot of the bad reviews come from.

 

[godzilla]

Hi All,

Good news (I think) and latest update on courses.....

Spoke to true tech and their 2365 course starts in Jan 2021.

But, 2 kids schools runs, primary and secondary at 2.30 and 3pm, 5miles apart, wipes out my afternoons. With 2365 being 9-4pm weekdays, is particularly a no go!

So After reading @Mark68 reply about colleges in other areas, I applied for the

EAL Diploma in Electrical Installations Level 2

Nightclass - 2 nights per week 5.30-9pm in Gwent college.

It's a approx., 50miles round trip each night, but the fees cost was £565!

Chased them today (had no reply, since applying) since the course starts next Tuesday.

They give me a telephone interview and got a place!

Interview lasted a couple of mins. Adult learner, name and address check and can I cough up the money now. Easy as that with no other questions and had a email confirmation straight after paying.

So great news, I start next Tuesday on a P/T 34 week course!

Only issue now is I need to work out how the EAL pathway works.

I am guessing after level 2, it's level 3, then after that - what's the next steps? I am now following the EAL route and not the C&G 2365!

 

[Gambit4PM]

Thanks @stokielee

I will look into the 8202, incase that is about anywhere near me and see if there is a pathway to it. The loan might help, if the payback is doable and not just after, so many months, you need to pay back!

Yes, the level 3 onwwards, 18th etc, will be something I will have to head to after getting past these first hurdles.

Thanks again for this info

Hi Godzilla,

I have just enrolled on the 8202 evening course at my local college in Wolverhampton, the course fees were covered by the government because my income is less than £30k - hope this helps!

 

[godzilla]

Hi Godzilla,

I have just enrolled on the 8202 evening course at my local college in Wolverhampton, the course fees were covered by the government because my income is less than £30k - hope this helps!

Nice one, I had to pay for my Level 2 and started started my EAL level 3 and had to pay for that too! It was reduced price, but better than those crazy fast track prices.

 

[deezed]

Hi Godzilla how did the course go? Can you shed some light on the EAL route? Thanks

Hi All,

Good news (I think) and latest update on courses.....

Spoke to true tech and their 2365 course starts in Jan 2021.

But, 2 kids schools runs, primary and secondary at 2.30 and 3pm, 5miles apart, wipes out my afternoons. With 2365 being 9-4pm weekdays, is particularly a no go!

So After reading @Mark68 reply about colleges in other areas, I applied for the

EAL Diploma in Electrical Installations Level 2

Nightclass - 2 nights per week 5.30-9pm in Gwent college.

It's a approx., 50miles round trip each night, but the fees cost was £565!

Chased them today (had no reply, since applying) since the course starts next Tuesday.

They give me a telephone interview and got a place!

Interview lasted a couple of mins. Adult learner, name and address check and can I cough up the money now. Easy as that with no other questions and had a email confirmation straight after paying.

So great news, I start next Tuesday on a P/T 34 week course!

Only issue now is I need to work out how the EAL pathway works.

I am guessing after level 2, it's level 3, then after that - what's the next steps? I am now following the EAL route and not the C&G 2365!