New circuits wired into a plastic consumer unit

[TJC1]

Had to install a ring main & cooker circuit for a new kitchen we have been doing.

The consumer unit is hager split load but is plastic. There is no room in the cupboard to add another board and the customers dont want to pay for a board change.

I guess i could just note on the form saying customers did not want to change to metal?

 

[Ian1981]

Which form are you implying?
That plastic board does not comply with the current regs.i hope you have advised them.
I wouldn't do that job unless if they agree to the change of the board.
Are you signing off any certs taking full responsibility just in case something happens?
You have installed 2 circuits a rfc and cooker radial.
You need EIC and everything has to comply with the current regs.
You cannot sign of the EIC with a plastic CU.

What a load of rubbish that statement is.
You are responsible for your work carried out only.
A simple note on the eic commenting on the CU is all that is needed.
You are advised to check the connections and condition of the CU and if it’s fit for continued service then it’s acceptable to leave it.
To tell people they must have it renewed or work can’t be carried out is just plain unethical and deceiving in my opinion.
You will find a section in the on site guide explaining this very topic of installing new circuits from an existing plastic CU

 

[davesparks]

MEN? So if MEN is pme why do you rod as well?

I think most countries that use PME have this requirement, its just us in the UK who are a bit backwards on this one.

 

[DPG]

Which form are you implying?
That plastic board does not comply with the current regs.i hope you have advised them.
I wouldn't do that job unless if they agree to the change of the board.
Are you signing off any certs taking full responsibility just in case something happens?
You have installed 2 circuits a rfc and cooker radial.
You need EIC and everything has to comply with the current regs.
You cannot sign of the EIC with a plastic CU.

Do you always tell customers they need a metal consumer unit fitting if you are doing electrical work in their properties?

 

[Norah Nabino]

Do you always tell customers they need a metal consumer unit fitting if you are doing electrical work in their properties?

I advise them and point out the safety issue strongly.
Most of them don't know the regulations and have no clue about the updates.
Most of them listen and book me in to change their CUs.

 

[Baddegg]

Is there a reg that says they need changing then?

 

[DPG]

Where would you stop though? There are many reg changes/additions that have been made over the years - do you recommend they update their installation to comply with all of them?

 

[westward10]

I advise them and point out the safety issue strongly.
Most of them don't know the regulations and have no clue about the updates.
Most of them listen and book me in to change their CUs.

It is all very well pointing out how the Regs have changed but if you're putting this across in such a way they are opting for a consumer unit change then you need to consider your ethics.

 

[Norah Nabino]

What a load of rubbish that statement is.
You are responsible for your work carried out only.
A simple note on the eic commenting on the CU is all that is needed.
You are advised to check the connections and condition of the CU and if it’s fit for continued service then it’s acceptable to leave it.
To tell people they must have it renewed or work can’t be carried out is just plain unethical and deceiving in my opinion.
You will find a section in the on site guide explaining this very topic of installing new circuits from an existing plastic CU

Excuse me i don't say "MUST".
I say to them it needs to be changed to comply to the current regs.
Most of them take my word.
You can be mad at my way of working but that is me very keen at safety so i do it ~100%.
Uou can sceream as much as you want but that is how i have been trained to carry out my work.
I don't carry out sub standard work.
I rather not do it than loose my credibility.

 

[Baddegg]

No one is doubting your standards of workmanship but as dpg states where do you stop? Are you now fitting rcd/rcbos to every lighting circuit even if not adding or altering?

 

[Norah Nabino]

Is there a reg that says they need changing then?[/QUOTEo
BS 7671:Amendment 3:2015

 

[Ian1981]

Excuse me i don't say "MUST".
I say to them it needs to be changed to comply to the current regs.
Most of them take my word.
You can be mad at my way of working but that is me very keen at safety so i do it ~100%.
Uou can sceream as much as you want but that is how i have been trained to carry out my work.
I don't carry out sub standard work.
I rather not do it than loose my credibility.

It’s very admirable that you install to a high Standard however the fact is it doesn’t need to be changed if fit for purpose.
There is no law requiring that an electrical installation requires upgrading to the latest standard.
It’s like saying that if you see red and black coloured wiring, then you refuse to do any alterations unless it’s all ripped out and rewired.

 

[Baddegg]

That’s the book not a reg no?

 

[Ian1981]

Not sure why you are mentioning the 17th edition?

 

[Norah Nabino]

It’s very admirable that you install to a high Standard however the fact is it doesn’t need to be changed if fit for purpose.
There is no law requiring that an electrical installation requires upgrading to the latest standard.
It’s like saying that if you see red and black coloured wiring, then you refuse to do any alterations unless it’s all ripped out and rewired.

Don't get me wrong i have changed CUs with old colour codes after taking all tests to confirm the wiring is safe ie continuity and IR.So after those test i can carry on and change the CU to the required standard.Sometimes the tails are not the required size.
If i do tests on the installation and find that it is not up to scrach i will advise accordingly i e to rewire depending on the nature of the install.
Luckly my clients get it most of the time.

 

[Norah Nabino]

Not sure why you are mentioning the 17th edition?

Where is 17th edition mentioned??
18th edition since the start of this year

 

[Norah Nabino]

That’s the book not a reg no?

Reg no will be quoted when i am in court.

 

[Andy78]

Reg no will be quoted when i am in court.

What are you getting taken to court for ?
Obtaining monies by deception ?

 

[Norah Nabino]

That’s the book not a reg no?

Reg no will be quoted when i am in court.

What are you getting taken to court for ?
Obtaining monies by deception ?

You wanted the reg no. and i am saying i will not telling you the reg no since you are a qualified Electrician who should know better.
I will quote it in court to those who have no clue abt it if they happen to ask.

 

[Baddegg]

You mentioned the 17th book Norah....I’ll look out for ya on watchdog

 

[Ian1981]

Where is 17th edition mentioned??
18th edition since the start of this year

The fact you’ve stated twice bs7671 amendment 3 2015

 

[Norah Nabino]

You mentioned the 17th book Norah....I’ll look out for ya on watchdog

Where is that???

 

[westward10]

Don't get me wrong i have changed CUs with old colour codes after taking all tests to confirm the wiring is safe ie continuity and IR.So after those test i can carry on and change the CU to the required standard.Sometimes the tails are not the required size.
If i do tests on the installation and find that it is not up to scrach i will advise accordingly i e to rewire depending on the nature of the install.
Luckly my clients get it most of the time.

I think your clients are definitely getting it.

 

[Norah Nabino]

The fact you’ve stated twice bs7671 amendment 3 2015

Is that amendment now obsolete? ??

 

[Norah Nabino]

You mentioned the 17th book Norah....I’ll look out for ya on watchdog

Yes go ahead look out for me and good luck with that.

 

[Ian1981]

Is that amendment now obsolete? ??

Yes the whole 17th edition is now not relevant for designs after December 31st 2018.

 

[Norah Nabino]

Yes the whole 17th edition is now not relevant for designs after December 31st 2018.

They amended it and what was not ammended was just carried over.
I can understand what your problem is but i know exactly what i am doing/talking about.
I am 18th edition trained as well.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

What was the question?

 

[Ian1981]

They amended it and what was not ammended was just carried over.
I can understand what your problem is but i know exactly what i am doing/talking about.
I am 18th edition trained as well.

 

[DPG]

Can't be any clearer really can it Ian.

 

[Ian1981]

Can't be any clearer really can it Ian.

It’s only the on site guide but the guidance from the industry as a whole and common sense on the subject is sound.