New Mains Powered smoke alarm beta testers needed.

[togglenation]

Hi all,

I'm working in a company that makes battery smoke alarms, we're now one of the biggest intrusion alarm manufacturers in the EU region. We're developing our own Mains Powered Smoke / Heat / Co detectors and I would like to talk to proffesionl electricians who installs AICO / FireAngel / Kidde detectors.

We have some cool ideas how to improve existing smoke detectors, so we would like to hear from a proffesional electricians.

 

[polaroid]

This would be Table 52.3 P144 ?

 

[littlespark]

So what’s the reg here?
Are you saying that as smoke detectors are “not lighting” then they must be power, and as such have to be wired in 1.5 instead of 1mm?

Even though they are coming off a 6A OCPD, which 1mm can easily handle.

Common sense prevails over pedantic choice of words in the book here methinks.

 

[polaroid]

So what’s the reg here?
Are you saying that as smoke detectors are “not lighting” then they must be power, and as such have to be wired in 1.5 instead of 1mm?

Even though they are coming off a 6A OCPD, which 1mm can easily handle.

Common sense prevails over pedantic choice of words in the book here methinks.

Note 4 says that it applies to lighting circuits and associated small items of current using equipment, such as a bathroom fan.

Going by that table if a smoke alarm is wired in the lighting circuit it can be 1mm but if a dedicated circuit it has to be 1.5mm ?

[Edit] Specific reg is 524.1 that just mentions conductors shall not be less than stated in table 52.3 (Except ELV)

 

[togglenation]

We're thinking about a similar concept for the Smoke Alarm base like in this video.

To give an easy solution for installation when you have 3 x 3C&1E cables. What do you think?)

And the question: - Do you guys often face a need to terminate 3 x 3C&1E?

 

[brianmoooore]

Video doesn't work for me.
Rarely need 3 x 1.0mm2 3&E into the terminals, but it does happen occasionally. 2 x 3&E plus 1 x T&E would probably be needed more often, so that you can 'inject' power part way along the string of detectors, instead of just at the end.
2 x 3&E is the most common, found in every base except the first and last.
Produce a copy of Aico, but with a terminal box four times the size, and you may have a winner.

 

[UNG]

Video doesn't work for me

I've been following this thread since it started and the one thing that stands out is that Aico are the preferred choice for a lot of installers, the Aico product has been developed over the last 30 years so and is continually developing aside from a more electrician friendly termination what is the OP's company bringing to the party in terms of improvements and product range.
Aico are already developing building monitoring products as an add on to their current offerings will the OP's company be following this route as well if so I think they have a steep development curve to overcome to catch up to where the current market position is, Aico and Fire Angel have remote monitoring gateways, Aico's gateway took around 2 - 3 years to come to market from when it was first shown at one of their roadshow events so the total development time was probably more like 5+ years

So the question to the OP would be how long will it take to bring your products to the market place

 

[togglenation]

Video doesn't work for me

I've been following this thread since it started and the one thing that stands out is that Aico are the preferred choice for a lot of installers, the Aico product has been developed over the last 30 years so and is continually developing aside from a more electrician friendly termination what is the OP's company bringing to the party in terms of improvements and product range.
Aico are already developing building monitoring products as an add on to their current offerings will the OP's company be following this route as well if so I think they have a steep development curve to overcome to catch up to where the current market position is, Aico and Fire Angel have remote monitoring gateways, Aico's gateway took around 2 - 3 years to come to market from when it was first shown at one of their roadshow events so the total development time was probably more like 5+ years

So the question to the OP would be how long will it take to bring your products to the market place

I would say the Q4 2022. I know that the AICO is HUGE (>£140m in revenue only in the UK). However, we have something more to offer, not limited to fire safety.

And you're saying that the video above is not working for you. Don't you mind to tell why? Looks like a great concept from my POV. And we definitely want to give an alternative for screw terminal connection.

We will have 3D printed prototypes in a ~month, will be glad if you guys can look at it)

 

[UNG]

I would say the Q4 2022. I know that the AICO is HUGE (>£140m in revenue only in the UK). However, we have something more to offer, not limited to fire safety.

Aico are already looking to exploit their gateway comms with property monitoring products, so what are you and your company looking to offer

And you're saying that the video above is not working for you. Don't you mind to tell why? Looks like a great concept from my POV. And we definitely want to give an alternative for screw terminal connection.

Press the play button and the video doesn't load, therefore it isn't working

We will have 3D printed prototypes in a ~month, will be glad if you guys can look at it)

It will be interesting to see

 

[DPG]

+1 for the video not working. Has the file been moved or renamed maybe?

 

[togglenation]

Sorry for video, might work now)

 

[togglenation]

Aico are already looking to exploit their gateway comms with property monitoring products, so what are you and your company looking to offer

Press the play button and the video doesn't load, therefore it isn't working

It will be interesting to see

Hi, we already selling our gateways (we call them HUBS) and they are superior to EI electronics(AICO). We have an IOS/Android app and numerous scenarios for Fire, Bulgary, Water Flooding incidents, Furthermore we have smart home capabilities, like lighting controls, and many more.

Life quality sensors are on the way. And the only thing we missing right now is the Mains Heat detector (bs5446-2) and Mains Smoke detector. And I don't want to be as already mentioned above, the kind of company that doesn't test the equipment before producing the damn thing. That's why I'm here discussing all this with you.

Needless to say that I'm already very thankful for your inputs and insights.

 

[DPG]

Hi, we already selling our gateways (we call them HUBS) and they are superior to EI electronics(AICO). We have an IOS/Android app and numerous scenarios for Fire, Bulgary, Water Flooding incidents, Furthermore we have smart home capabilities, like lighting controls, and many more.

Life quality sensors are on the way. And the only thing we missing right now is the Mains Heat detector (bs5446-2) and Mains Smoke detector. And I don't want to be as already mentioned above, the kind of company that doesn't test the equipment before producing the damn thing. That's why I'm here discussing all this with you.

Needless to say that I'm already very thankful for your inputs and insights.

Could you post a link to your website showing details of the hubs you are currently selling. Thanks.

 

[togglenation]

Could you post a link to your website showing details of the hubs you are currently selling. Thanks.

Sure. Here is the link.

 

[Rockingit]

It is one of the oddities in the UK regs that 1mm is only permitted for fixed wiring if it is for lightning. 1.5mm is the minimum for "power".

Now you can say the fire alarms are being mains powered, so need to have 1.5mm (for reasons nobody has quite explained) as a dedicated supply, even if from a 6A MCB. However, often they are permitted to be powered from a lighting circuit since people will notice and presumably fix any trip of that supply, which of course is probably done all in 1mm!

Although bizarrely an argument can be made for 0.75mm flex!

 

[DPG]

Although bizarrely an argument can be made for 0.75mm flex!

If you go bigger than 0.75mm then your pendants dangle in a wonky manner. Which nobody wants

 

[littlespark]

You might want a doctor to have a look at that @DPG

 

[DPG]

You might want a doctor to have a look at that @DPG

My Mrs sometimes says it needs to be thicker. Although why she's interested in pendant flex size i don't know.