Safety and part p questions

[Nickzx6]

hi

I’m new to self employed domestic (having done my apprenticeship and time in industry with a utility supplier) so looking for a little guidance on the below.....

Got asked to look at an Rcbo tripping issue. Called in for an initial look. Nothing seemed obviously wrong so as to cause the tripping. What I did spot though was a fairly new d/b that had obviously been moved, no sign of test (stickers etc...) all wiring in new colours where suspect ring arrived upstairs in old colours !! So clearly some joints along the way.

Upstairs the ring was terminated in a jb then spurred off in new colours to a double socket then spurred again off the spur to another double socket.

I couldn’t knock the dB off for proper test but I did ir test from jb out along spur to sockets which found nothing.

I was meant to be going back after shop hours so I could isolate dB and have a proper look inside (board was rammed full so I declined to investigate inside whilst live)

I’ve had a message in meantime saying its all sorted. I asked what was found and they weren’t too sure but thought it was a cable that had been put into one of the sockets I tested shorting on something.

I’m gutted I missed this cable on inspection but would’ve thought the ir test would pick the short up?

My question, however, is this.....

The spark who went in after me has obviously ignored the spur on spur and just fixed the issue? I thought that any circuit we were working on needed to be shown to meet regs? Am I wrong? Should I just be fixing what’s in front of me?

Glad of any advice

 

[Pete999]

hi

I’m new to self employed domestic (having done my apprenticeship and time in industry with a utility supplier) so looking for a little guidance on the below.....

Got asked to look at an Rcbo tripping issue. Called in for an initial look. Nothing seemed obviously wrong so as to cause the tripping. What I did spot though was a fairly new d/b that had obviously been moved, no sign of test (stickers etc...) all wiring in new colours where suspect ring arrived upstairs in old colours !! So clearly some joints along the way.

Upstairs the ring was terminated in a jb then spurred off in new colours to a double socket then spurred again off the spur to another double socket.

I couldn’t knock the dB off for proper test but I did ir test from jb out along spur to sockets which found nothing.

I was meant to be going back after shop hours so I could isolate dB and have a proper look inside (board was rammed full so I declined to investigate inside whilst live)

I’ve had a message in meantime saying its all sorted. I asked what was found and they weren’t too sure but thought it was a cable that had been put into one of the sockets I tested shorting on something.

I’m gutted I missed this cable on inspection but would’ve thought the ir test would pick the short up?

My question, however, is this.....

The spark who went in after me has obviously ignored the spur on spur and just fixed the issue? I thought that any circuit we were working on needed to be shown to meet regs? Am I wrong? Should I just be fixing what’s in front of me?

Glad of any advice

You could suggest to your client that in order to ensure the installation is in a safe condition, that an EICR would be the prudent way forward, was there any paperwork left by the Electrician who installed the "fairly new board"?

 

[telectrix]

that looks like a job to swerve away from, bodges done by another, you get involved, your name on the the court list when it goes ---- up.

 

[Nickzx6]

Thanks both.

Those were my thoughts too. I think an EICR is in order to at least make sure everything is as it should be.

There was no paperwork with the current occupiers (a tenant in a high street shop) but could've been with the landlord. I did suggest that they speak with their landlord who may be able to contact the person who did the board move/renewal.

I'm getting the idea, though, that most people aren't bothered if their bonding is sufficient, or if there is a spur on a spur, they just want their immediate problem fixed. And there seems to be people who will oblige this.

which leads me onto another question.... would you complete a minor works to show tests completed if you were making small repairs such as re-terminating or basic accessory replacement? And would you still do that repair work if there was danger, such as metal accessories on a 'pre-earth requirement' lighting circuit?

again, thanks for any thoughts and opinions

 

[Pete999]

Thanks both.

Those were my thoughts too. I think an EICR is in order to at least make sure everything is as it should be.

There was no paperwork with the current occupiers (a tenant in a high street shop) but could've been with the landlord. I did suggest that they speak with their landlord who may be able to contact the person who did the board move/renewal.

I'm getting the idea, though, that most people aren't bothered if their bonding is sufficient, or if there is a spur on a spur, they just want their immediate problem fixed. And there seems to be people who will oblige this.

which leads me onto another question.... would you complete a minor works to show tests completed if you were making small repairs such as re-terminating or basic accessory replacement? And would you still do that repair work if there was danger, such as metal accessories on a 'pre-earth requirement' lighting circuit?

again, thanks for any thoughts and opinions

No an eicr cert is what you want to complete.

 

[Nickzx6]

Thanks Pete.

Just to clarify though do you mean an EICR in this specific circumstance or an EICR following minor repairs?

Thanks
Nick

 

[westward10]

An EICR is for a complete inspection/test not for repair works etc.. A Minor Works can be used for minor repairs, any work you carry out must have certain levels of protection to ensure ADS and maybe additional rcd protection is provided.

 

[Pete999]

Thanks Pete.

Just to clarify though do you mean an EICR in this specific circumstance or an EICR following minor repairs?

Thanks
Nick

For minor repairs then a MNWC, but how can you repair faults if you haven't tested the installation? do the EICR hand it to the client with your recommendations for any repairs.
Your job is done up to the client to either do nothing, or employ you or another electrician to do the repairs, in my opinion it would be rather silly if the client were to employ someone else, as you have first hand knowledge of any repairs/alterations that are needed.

 

[Nickzx6]

An EICR is for a complete inspection/test not for repair works etc.. A Minor Works can be used for minor repairs, any work you carry out must have certain levels of protection to ensure ADS and maybe additional rcd protection is provided.

Thanks, that was my understanding of it.

What would your approach be in the situations I described above, do you fix the problem and note the faults on the minor works, decline the work until an EICR is completed to reveal the whole truth or another option?

Thanks
Nick

 

[Pete999]

For minor repairs then a MNWC, but how can you repair faults if you haven't tested the installation? do the EICR hand it to the client with your recommendations for any repairs.
Your job is done up to the client to either do nothing, or employ you or another electrician to do the repairs, in my opinion it would be rather silly if the client were to employ someone else, as you have first hand knowledge of any repairs/alterations that are needed.

You need to be honest and not manufacture faults, doing that may come back and bite you in your rear end, if you do the EICR then it would be advantageous to both you and the client to agree prior to beginning the tests, to rectify any small faults that are easy to fix, loose connections etc.