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People in the UK have a problem with mixing socket outlets and lighting on the same circuit, it isn't convention therefore it is wrong but it isn't.
Discuss Sockets on a lighting circuit - C3 or C2? in the Periodic Inspection Reporting & Certification area at ElectriciansForums.net
Would that not be clear and obvious to you at the point of inspection as the OP found outI'd be asking why it was done that way in the first place?
Have you not been reading all the posts in this thread where the likely reason for the installation of sockets on the lighting circuit rather than FCU's has been mentioned and discussedI know UNG raises the point that it's not bad workmanship but it just doesn't sit right; if it is there for a specific purpose then yes (S)FCU it as it removes the "Ohh a plug, just what I need for the roof decorations at Christmas.
If it is there for lighting then why not connect it to the local lighting circuit putting a separate circuit with it's own OCPD would then have two circuits in one light switch again not codeable but probably presents a greater danger to a dabbling Mr DIYIf it is there for a set purpose then give it a standard radial with standalone OCPD.
A C3 is a code like it or not so a "Code C3 – Improvement recommended" what improvement are you going to recommend when you cant plug a lighting adaptor / driver into an FCUAs C3 does naff all to the end result of the EICR I see no harm in attaching a code to it. I know there are various softwares out there that give a CO (Comment Only) option but I refer to earlier; if it doesn't fail it then why not use what is already there?
While it might not "sit with you" it is what it is, the real problem is we have to work with what the manufacturers supply which is genearlly all down to cost but also down to what Mr DIY can easily fitI respect the opinions of my fellow peers and on most points, will take their advises and counter-arguments and constructive comments but I dunno, it doesn't sit with me, hence my approach, maybe it's just naivety with lack of real world experience, who knows
From a coding point of view there really isn't much to discuss but it does highlight what maybe an over zealous inspector that acts with a coding before considering why and whether there are any better or alternative solutions that could have been offered or installedWhat is engineering judgement to one person could be --------, -------s and baloney to the next but that is why I love this place; many minds coming together and debating basic stuff.
I know what you are saying, because the sockets were installed for a certain intended purpose. But the truth is does it really matter? The position of the sockets alone is a limiting factor and so they are not likely to be used regularly for anything that is likely to overload the circuit.I know UNG raises the point that it's not bad workmanship but it just doesn't sit right; if it is there for a specific purpose then yes (S)FCU it as it removes the "Ohh a plug, just what I need for the roof decorations at Christmas. If it is there for a set purpose then give it a standard radial with standalone OCPD
Before AM2 the regs made a distinction between "lighting circuits" and "power circuits" in terms of cable selection in Table 52.3 where 1mm could be used for lights and according to Note 4 "associated small items of current-using equipment, such as a bathroom extractor fan", but you had to use 1.5mm for general power circuits.People in the UK have a problem with mixing socket outlets and lighting on the same circuit, it isn't convention therefore it is wrong but it isn't.
I get this, though if the lights come with a standard plug then you have the same situation if you installed FCU's where the plug requires removing/changing. I think maybe the electrician when installing should consider the position and so the likelihood of the sockets being used for other than their intended purpose.As I already said, I have no issue with sockets on light circuits for use with lights (so 5A round pin, or some roof-like location) for dedicated low-power stuff like TV antenna amplifiers, but consider it bad practice to have sockets that to any of the public look like they can be used for generic 13A loads but actually can't and also take out the lights in the process.
100% this!Personally where possible I would try and mount them where they are not that practically accessible for general everyday use. This in my mind would satisfy good practice.
TUT TUT , well its not just about BS7671 is it, come on people remember your days at the local tech college, its about adhering to the electrical craft principles we were all taught.
My tutors would be have a fit if they heard some of the comments going on here.
Practically IMO its not good for a circuit to be running over its CCC even if it only for a few seconds with big loads being plugged in untill its goes pop.
Then you could argue that being plunged in total darkness could warrant a C2 for safety reasons in some certain circumstances.
It would be a C3 for me all day long. We dont mix power with lighting circuits.
I dont call that a 13A socket which a 2/3KW appliance can be plugged in potentially. lolYes we do, we commonly have smoke alarms on lighting circuits.
I dont call that a 13A socket which a 2/3KW appliance can be plugged in potentially. lol
Come on Daz
We did think is was 1kw or 500WMy in-laws have a fan heater in their bathroom running off a 3036 5A lighting circuit turned down internally for 1kw instead of 2kw.
Power and lighting has been mixed for many years as far back as the 2A, 5A and 15A round pin socketsTUT TUT , well its not just about BS7671 is it, come on people remember your days at the local tech college, its about adhering to the electrical craft principles we were all taught.
My tutors would be have a fit if they heard some of the comments going on here.
Practically IMO its not good for a circuit to be running over its CCC even if it only for a few seconds with big loads being plugged in untill its goes pop.
Then you could argue that being plunged in total darkness could warrant a C2 for safety reasons in some certain circumstances.
It would be a C3 for me all day long. We dont mix power with lighting circuits.
Maybe that will be in the next amendment that a socket outlet must be fitted next to the last fitting on the circuitMakes it easy to do ELI and RCD testing on a lighting circuit if there’s a handy socket
It would with my old Robin KMP 5404 testerMakes it easy to do ELI and RCD testing on a lighting circuit if there’s a handy socket
My in-laws have a fan heater in their bathroom running off a 3036 5A lighting circuit turned down internally for 1kw instead of 2kw.
I consider these lighting, have wired many these switched at the door entrance for table lamps on lighting circuits or spured down with a FCU.Power and lighting has been mixed for many years as far back as the 2A, 5A and 15A round pin sockets
A lot of the problem as previously mentioned lies with the lighting manufacturers who insist on supplying lighting kits for under cupboard or plinth lighting with 13A plug in adaptors, personally I would rather they supplied their kits with boxed transformers or drivers with a short flylead that could be terminated into a flex outlet plate or FCU but until that happens I feel we are stuck with what we have
I always carry those. Misusing one once got me out of a very difficult situation!I know, you can get adaptors for various light sockets... ES, BC, GU10 etc....
My mother still has one although the heater is duff. My father linked out the general pull switch and you controlled it from the pull cord at the light. Can't remember the pull sequence but maybe one pull heater, two pulls heater and light and three pulls just the light.It's not that many decades back that bathrooms were commonly fitted with combined light/heater contraptions.
We also see cooker hoods with moulded plugs into single sockets fed off the lighting circuitYes we do, we commonly have smoke alarms on lighting circuits.
My mother still has one although the heater is duff. My father linked out the general pull switch and you controlled it from the pull cord at the light. Can't remember the pull sequence but maybe one pull heater, two pulls heater and light and three pulls just the light.
What I want to know is where did you get that picture of my wife.Only a few years ago this was the way we did things.
Surely a properly fused plug and socket isn’t a life-threatening device?!
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Ah, I found one of these in the bathroom of an elderly lady a couple of months back, when T'ing and I'ing for a board change. BC lampholder in the middle, and a circular element around it.My mother still has one although the heater is duff. My father linked out the general pull switch and you controlled it from the pull cord at the light. Can't remember the pull sequence but maybe one pull heater, two pulls heater and light and three pulls just the light.
Reply to Sockets on a lighting circuit - C3 or C2? in the Periodic Inspection Reporting & Certification area at ElectriciansForums.net
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