Spur from lighting circuit?

[raustin]

Round at a mates house last night and he has asked for a socket to be installed in his loft. He has an electric mouse trap that he wants to put up there.

Now he's asked me to install it for him, which is fine, no probs there but he is under the impression that spur can come off the lighting circuit. (thats what his electrcian where he works told him)

Now correct me if I'm wrong (which you will) didn't think that that could be done as even though he knows what the socket is for, in the furture someone else could plug anything into it.

You can get 5A round pin sockets. Are these OK to use or is this method a big no no as again someone else could fit a stadard socket .

Cheers Rich

 

[johnboy6083]

a 5a socket should be no problem in theory, but its your call.

 

[telectrix]

no problem with a 5A socket on the lighting circuit. has been used for aerial amps where there is only lighting in the loft.

 

[RogertheBodger]

Or you could run it through an FCU, how does an electric mousetrap work then? make its own cheese?

 

[telectrix]

first it shreds the cheese, then the mouse comes for the cheese, and it shreds the mouse. problem is you can't run the toaster off the lighting circuit so you have to spread you shredded mouse with cheese on bread and toast it in the kitchen.

 

[raustin]

Or you could run it through an FCU, how does an electric mousetrap work then? make its own cheese?

I did think about this, but someone else could still fit a 13A fuse.

 

[telectrix]

fit a 13A fuse where????sorry forget that. you are referring to FCU.

 

[RogertheBodger]

first it shreds the cheese, then the mouse comes for the cheese, and it shreds the mouse. problem is you can't run the toaster off the lighting circuit so you have to spread you shredded mouse with cheese on bread and toast it in the kitchen.[/Q

Sounds yummy, should have realized that you would know the answer!
I was picturing something more mundane like a mousebusting sonic pulse .........................or something

 

[telectrix]

you do need loads of beer with it though , to wash it down. the fur can get stuck in your throat. not as bad as squirrel though, the tails are hard to swallow, but you have extra protein with the fleas.

 

[roukel01]

I've seen sockets wired this way loads of times. 5Amp socket would be best, but I'm sure you can get away with a 13amp one provided you label it up "for mouse trap use only" or something like that. Its only the same as getting away with not fitting an RCD to a surface mount socket and labelling it up "Freezer Only"

 

[Paul.M]

I think the trap needs an electric metal plate to zap the little buggers once they walk in.

Yes you can spur a socket from the lighting circuit but use a round pin socket, place labels on it and the c/u and make a note in the cert.

 

[telectrix]

hedgehogs are a different matter, but we all have to put up with little pricks at times. ( thinking of building inspectors, plumbers, plasterers, inland revenue, doctors, solicitors, awkward customers, IT geeks, salesmen, bank managers, ............. )

 

[RogertheBodger]

you do need loads of beer with it though , to wash it down. the fur can get stuck in your throat. not as bad as squirrel though, the tails are hard to swallow, but you have extra protein with the fleas.

Can't wait to try one of your local restaurants, how do they catch the Squ ............ No, surely not?
The loads of beer sounds do-able though.

 

[telectrix]

can't wait for the barbeque season. spit roast badger, baked wood pigeon, fresh koi carp from neighbour's pond. mmmmmmm

 

[RogertheBodger]

can't wait for the barbeque season. spit roast badger, baked wood pigeon, fresh koi carp from neighbour's pond. mmmmmmm

Drooling down my shirt now,
Paul has suggested a metal plate a la Newbury but I'm interested in how this mousetrap lures the mice in, does it emit mouse attracting scents, or soft seductive mouse music, can't be climbing in the loft everyday to re-cheese it.

 

[mayfair]

It has a built in sound card and dolby 7.1 suround sound that keeps repeating the words ..........There's cheese in here come on in.

Drooling down my shirt now,
Paul has suggested a metal plate a la Newbury but I'm interested in how this mousetrap lures the mice in, does it emit mouse attracting scents, or soft seductive mouse music, can't be climbing in the loft everyday to re-cheese it.

 

[telectrix]

just when you're having a bad day!

 

[telectrix]

and that didn't work very well.

 

[RogertheBodger]

It has a built in sound card and dolby 7.1 suround sound that keeps repeating the words ..........There's cheese in here come on in.

The hypnotic approach, that could work!
Didn't realize that Tel's avatar had a cat in it, Thats really funny, they do look a bit apprehensive though, as if someone is lighting a barbecue.

 

[Adam W]

If you put a 13A socket up there it will get used for a vacuum cleaner - why go to the effort of running a cable upstairs when you can just disobey a little sticker?
Going around putting 5A plugs on all low powered appliances and running them off the lighting circuit is not the way forward.
You could fit a FCU at a push, but it's best just to fit a socket properly, which is essentially what the customer is asking for - ingenious little 'DIY-esque' innovations shouldn't become the norm.

 

[telectrix]

If you put a 13A socket up there it will get used for a vacuum cleaner - why go to the effort of running a cable upstairs when you can just disobey a little sticker?
Going around putting 5A plugs on all low powered appliances and running them off the lighting circuit is not the way forward.
You could fit a FCU at a push, but it's best just to fit a socket properly, which is essentially what the customer is asking for - ingenious little 'DIY-esque' innovations shouldn't become the norm.

anybody wants to use a vacuum cleaner in an attic has a serious compulsive disorder. going by your post, then they'd all be fitting bayonet plugs on irons and kettles so as to plug into the light pendants.

 

[Adam W]

anybody wants to use a vacuum cleaner in an attic has a serious compulsive disorder. going by your post, then they'd all be fitting bayonet plugs on irons and kettles so as to plug into the light pendants.

If that was easier than using a 13A socket and if they were readily available then I expect people would.
I was actually thinking more along the lines of putting in a load of 5A sockets run from the lighting circuit for appliances, and using the 13A sockets for wall lights with flex on the end.

There was a post recently about a little old lady who had a 13A socket put on the lighting circuit for a table lamp.
Then the switch was changed for a dimmer so she could vary the speed of the vacuum cleaner.

 

[roukel01]

If you put a 13A socket up there it will get used for a vacuum cleaner - why go to the effort of running a cable upstairs when you can just disobey a little sticker?
Going around putting 5A plugs on all low powered appliances and running them off the lighting circuit is not the way forward.
You could fit a FCU at a push, but it's best just to fit a socket properly, which is essentially what the customer is asking for - ingenious little 'DIY-esque' innovations shouldn't become the norm.

Rubbish

 

[RogertheBodger]

If you put a 13A socket up there it will get used for a vacuum cleaner - why go to the effort of running a cable upstairs when you can just disobey a little sticker?
Going around putting 5A plugs on all low powered appliances and running them off the lighting circuit is not the way forward.
You could fit a FCU at a push, but it's best just to fit a socket properly, which is essentially what the customer is asking for - ingenious little 'DIY-esque' innovations shouldn't become the norm

Hi Novus

What the Op was asking about was a 'spur off the lighting circuit' in the loft, where there is only a lighting circuit, a 5A socket or FCU is covered by the Regs so what is the problem with that?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that 5A sockets should be used all over a premises for low powered appliances, but they are useful in certain situations - like this one.

Lets not forget that the owner of the property has a say in these situations, after all, he owns the installation, how much more difficult and expensive would it be to bring a 13A socket up from the floor below, we don't know - we are not the Electrician on site.

We can only advise our customers what to do, if they don't want to do that, we can suggest a compromise, if they are set on doing it illegally then you have to walk, but if you walk, you know that the next guy through the door is not going to be a skilled Sparky, he will do what they want, so what kind of dangerous situation will he leave behind?

It's our job to leave our clients safe and happy.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Apart from the dreaded "bad practice" angle what is stopping someone fitting a 13amp BS 1363 socket to a lighting circuit. I would not hesitate to fit one via a 3 amp FCU. If Mrs jones wants to then get up into the loft and spring clean with the vacuum, where she finds it cold and plugs a 3 kw heater into it.................and the 3amp fuse blows.

Mr Jones being the nice husband he is says no problem dear I'll fit a 13amp fuse for you ...............so he does and when they switch on the vacuum/heater the 6amp or 10amp MCB trips ...................ahhh says Mr jones ..............I think that plug will only work with the mouse trap dear.

As long as you label the socket as being fed from the lighting circuit .............then you should have no problems.