tray work

[amckay]

I've started subbing on a site on Monday (the site has been active since July) and today I had to earth containment trays, putting copper bars over joints etc. Anyway its a 10 story building and it has a riser for cabling. However the trays in the riser are not continuous its just a 1.5m section thrown against the wall with around a 18 inch gap in between floors. So I'm linking them together by crimping 16mm2 and using 1 inch long bolts (they supplied them). The way i have bolted them is with the threaded shaft protruding the top of the tray where the cable lies. My supervisor rekons niceic will "fail" it as the cable sheeth could tear against it during installation.

Personally instead of swapping the bolts around, I rekon a bit of heat shrink will do the trick

Am I wrong?
Bearing in mind this is the first time I've done commercial as I've mainly done pat and domestics

 

[trev]

Your gaffer shouldn't be pulling your work because of what the NIC might say, he should pull it if it's wrong. He seems spineless.
However, are the bolts round headed with screwdriver slots? If so, they should be reversed. If they're hexagonal then the cable could, in theory, still snag.

 

[Farmelectrics]

Don't no wether the niceic would fail it but I'm sorry to say your boss is right

 

[davesparks]

You would normally use gutter bolts with tray which have a slim slightly domed head. The head should be on the inside of the tray so that the cables have the smoothest possible surface to run against.

It should be common sense that you don't fit anything in such a way as it might cause damage to cables, and you can't use the domestic excuse on that, even in domestic you don't install things where they can damage cables!

 

[Pete999]

Your gaffer shouldn't be pulling your work because of what the NIC might say, he should pull it if it's wrong. He seems spineless.
However, are the bolts round headed with screwdriver slots? If so, they should be reversed. If they're hexagonal then the cable could, in theory, still snag.

I agree with Trev

 

[telectrix]

not your fault, mate. as a trainee, you should have been told/shown the correct way. for future reference, it's almost always the case that the bolt heads go on the cable side of the containment with the nuts outside. and has been mentioned, dome head bolts should be used.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I hate gutter bolts generally but this is one place where that head design is ideal. But only of course if it's on the right side of the tray. Why on earth would you install bolts facing into the tray?

 

[trev]

I hate gutter bolts generally but this is one place where that head design is ideal. But only of course if it's on the right side of the tray. Why on earth would you install bolts facing into the tray?

Because he's a trainee and hasn't been told. The lad made a mistake. Easily corrected though and he'll remember it next time.

 

[guest119]

I agree with Pete.

Boydy

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Fair point Trev I missed that, it does say trainee. I forget not everyone starts out doing metal containment as well.

 

[davesparks]

But surely everyone should be born with common sense?

 

[amckay]

I hate gutter bolts generally but this is one place where that head design is ideal. But only of course if it's on the right side of the tray. Why on earth would you install bolts facing into the tray?

Because he's a trainee and hasn't been told. The lad made a mistake. Easily corrected though and he'll remember it next time.

They were domed headed. I installed them that way as mentioned in op the bolts were 1 inch long and the gap was 1/2 - 3/4inch. So it was impossible for me to get my hands round the back to tighten up.

 

[amckay]

But surely everyone should be born with common sense?

And surely everyone should read and op PROPERLY before commenting

 

[trev]

But surely everyone should be born with common sense?

You're right. I dropped loads of bolox when I was serving my time though.

 

[davesparks]

And surely everyone should read and op PROPERLY before commenting

Yes, it still doesn't excuse the OP for not having common sense!

You have containment to pull cables along, you don't install things in the way of those cables!

If a bolt is too long either get a shorter one or cut it down.

 

[Knobhead]

I've started subbing on a site on Monday (the site has been active since July) and today I had to earth containment trays, putting copper bars over joints etc. Anyway its a 10 story building and it has a riser for cabling. However the trays in the riser are not continuous its just a 1.5m section thrown against the wall with around a 18 inch gap in between floors. So I'm linking them together by crimping 16mm2 and using 1 inch long bolts (they supplied them). The way i have bolted them is with the threaded shaft protruding the top of the tray where the cable lies. My supervisor rekons niceic will "fail" it as the cable sheeth could tear against it during installation. I don't know about the NIC-EIC failing it but I would.

Personally instead of swapping the bolts around, I rekon a bit of heat shrink will do the trick It won't

Am I wrong? Yes
Bearing in mind this is the first time I've done commercial as I've mainly done pat and domestics

Just reverse the bolts, save all the hastle.

 

[guest119]

And fit brass ones.

Boydy

 

[davesparks]

Why brass ones when bolting to steel tray? I can understand brass bolts for bolting lugs to brass banjos etc, but why not use steel bolts to fix to steel?

 

[Bobster]

And fit brass ones.

Boydy

On galv tray?

 

[davesparks]

Beaten you again!

 

[stimpy]

not your fault, mate. as a trainee, you should have been told/shown the correct way. for future reference, it's almost always the case that the bolt heads go on the cable side of the containment with the nuts outside. and has been mentioned, dome head bolts should be used.

As above...

 

[Bobster]

Beaten you again!

I'm blaming the crap internet at this hotel.

 

[telectrix]

I'm blaming the crap internet at this hotel.

have a word with the manager.

 

[rapparee]

They were domed headed. I installed them that way as mentioned in op the bolts were 1 inch long and the gap was 1/2 - 3/4inch. So it was impossible for me to get my hands round the back to tighten up.

Screw a nut right up to the head of the spouting bolt, put bolt in vice, cut the 10/15mm off the bolt and when you're finished take the nut back off the bolt, this will reform the thread.


If you think i'm telling you how to suck eggs i'm sorry, you're only an apprentice i don't know your level

 

[amckay]

They were domed headed. I installed them that way as mentioned in op the bolts were 1 inch long and the gap was 1/2 - 3/4inch. So it was impossible for me to get my hands round the back to tighten up.

Screw a nut right up to the head of the spouting bolt, put bolt in vice, cut the 10/15mm off the bolt and when you're finished take the nut back off the bolt, this will reform the thread.


If you think i'm telling you how to suck eggs i'm sorry, you're only an apprentice i don't know your level

I'm not an apprentice iv just not completed nvq yet but have core quals. I've been round today and replaced all nuts with smaller ones

 

[CockneyReject]

They were domed headed. I installed them that way as mentioned in op the bolts were 1 inch long and the gap was 1/2 - 3/4inch. So it was impossible for me to get my hands round the back to tighten up.

use the holes on the side of the tray instead or get shorter bolts?? If you've realised that you can't get your hand in then surely bolting it to the side is the better idea as how the hell are you going to get a roofing bolt tight enough without using a dirty great big flat head to hold it in place, **** poor mechanical connection there fella

You're right. I dropped loads of bolox when I was serving my time though.

I'm we all did trev, best way to learn lol

 

[shanky887614]

use the holes on the side of the tray instead or get shorter bolts?? If you've realised that you can't get your hand in then surely bolting it to the side is the better idea as how the hell are you going to get a roofing bolt tight enough without using a dirty great big flat head to hold it in place, **** poor mechanical connection there fella



I'm we all did trev, best way to learn lol

light gauge doesnt have holes in the sides

keep your crap roofers and ill stick to my pozi head roofers

 

[trev]

I'm we all did trev, best way to learn lol

Specially when you get a clout round the head when you do make a mistake. Kind of drives the lesson home properly

 

[CockneyReject]

light gauge doesnt have holes in the sides

keep your crap roofers and ill stick to my pozi head roofers

you can keep your flimsy tray fella, don't use it, come to think of it I've only ever used it at college and yeah I really do like pozi headed roofers too especially when they come with proper nuts too but most firms are too tight to splash the cash for those

Specially when you get a clout round the head when you do make a mistake. Kind of drives the lesson home properly

ahhhhhhh the good old days :stooge_curly: had to stop myself from doing it to the last apprentice cause apparently it's not character building anymore it's bullying.................

 

[davesparks]

you can keep your flimsy tray fella, don't use it, come to think of it I've only ever used it at college and yeah I really do like pozi headed roofers too especially when they come with proper nuts too but most firms are too tight to splash the cash for those

It's all too ruddy flimsy whatever 'duty' it is supposed to be!