2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March 1st

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Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

Dont you mean qms and with the latest changes I think a lot of people will be put off the hoop jumping. 2012 is going to be uphill all the way. I dont even think you can help us but if you know a couple of people looking for 4KW systems Im your man.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

babba said:
Dont you mean qms and with the latest changes I think a lot of people will be put off the hoop jumping. 2012 is going to be uphill all the way. I dont even think you can help us but if you know a couple of people looking for 4KW systems Im your man.
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Hi Babba,

Easy MCS offer support for installers through the entire MCS process from application through to assessment, this does include a bespoke quality management system but our service is much more than just the QMS element. Unfortunately we cannot help directly with lead generation although our partner 'MCS Directory' will soon be adding a tender submission button which will assist with end users uploading installation requests to local installers.

I hope this helps.
 
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Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

we installed a 10KWp system in October last year but i am being asked by the customer if we meet BREEAM and CIBSE code 4 plus was the system overseen by a specialist commissioning engineer. I have told them that we are MCS/Napit registered, accredited under MCS001 and our engineers are SSEG trained by eco skies plus hold relevant 17th edition and /or elect test certs. What more do they need. Can you advise as to what BREEAM and CIBSE code 4 are and if they relevant for us to install solar PV.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I am currently using a third party company to provide me with structural calculations for our installations, would it be possible to send you a copy of a report to see if you can check its eligibility and conformance with regulations for peace of mind?? If so, please provide me an email address I can send to.
Thanks
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

One thing I'm slightly confused about is the Insurance backed warranty - I know that ELECSA emailed round recently to say they were offering insurance for warranties against potential bankruptcy etc and that this was a requirement of compliance with MCS and REAL guidelines - my question is this - do we have to now go back over all of our installations and offer this to each client, and if so are we able to charge for this (I understand in Elecsa's case it costs around £30-40 per contract) or do we HAVE to offer it free of charge?

Thanks,
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

SAS said:
I am currently using a third party company to provide me with structural calculations for our installations, would it be possible to send you a copy of a report to see if you can check its eligibility and conformance with regulations for peace of mind?? If so, please provide me an email address I can send to.
Thanks
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SAS
MCS states that if you are in any doubt as to the structural suitability of the building you should consult a structural engineer. In many cases, electricians fitting Solar PV would be in doubt. Both static and wind loadings should be considered. Your report should be considering these issues and basically giving a yes or no for the proposed installation. Assessing bodies will normally accept a report from a qualified roofer, they are less likely to "be in doubt" than an electrician.

As with all things MCS, if you have commissioned a report from a company for structural advice then you should be able to justify why this company is competant to carry out that report. If you think that the information they have given you is either insufficient or possibly incorrect then you should query this with them.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I came across a situation In November when a potential client had bought all of his own kit. He then had it installed by an electrician & roofer etc & then had a certificate issued by a third party who had not carried out any work other than certification. This I consider does not comply with REAL code of practice and MCS requirements. Any views ?
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

We are a small size electrical contactors with MCS accredition for solar PV. We didn't go for your MCS pack but do you offer a package that helps to keep track of installations, etc and help us prepare for the MCS inspection (due October)?
Also, is it alegal requirement to handle all payments for PV installations to conditions set by REAL?
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

Re: "I came across a situation In November when a potential client had bought all of his own kit. He then had it installed by an electrician & roofer etc & then had a certificate issued by a third party who had not carried out any work other than certification. This I consider does not comply with REAL code of practice and MCS requirements. Any views ?"

As far as I'm aware, MCS guidelines differ from Part P in that an MCS accredited company CAN sign off somebody elses installation provided they are confident it HAS been done in line with the relevant guidelines, installation procedures and manufacturers recommendations etc. We were told this by our MCS assessor, in case our first installation didn't get signed off in time (we were accredited end Nov so in the end it didn't make any odds). PLease correct me if I'm wrong, easy MCS?
 
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Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

adamcharvet said:
One thing I'm slightly confused about is the Insurance backed warranty - I know that ELECSA emailed round recently to say they were offering insurance for warranties against potential bankruptcy etc and that this was a requirement of compliance with MCS and REAL guidelines - my question is this - do we have to now go back over all of our installations and offer this to each client, and if so are we able to charge for this (I understand in Elecsa's case it costs around £30-40 per contract) or do we HAVE to offer it free of charge?
Thanks,
Click to expand...

Adam


Things have changed slightly in the last couple of weeks. Inthe past you would register any deposits or advance payments with a suitable insurance company (REAL flag up that QANW are suitable, but you can use others). This would cover the client should you go bust before fulfilling the contract. When you completed the contract you would inform the insurance company. In QANW's case, they would then contact the customer and offer them a policy to cover against you going bust during your workmanship warranty period. The customer could decide to accept or decline this offer.

Since 1st Feb this has changed. You are now required to register the advance payment and, in QANW's case, pay £26.50 to cover both the deposit and the Warranty period. You must not sell this insurance to the client or advise on its suitability, as you are not registered to do so with the FSA.


As far as I am aware, you do not need to go back on jobs you have already completed, these should have been offered the warranty at the time by the insurance company.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

Phil Bennett said:
I came across a situation In November when a potential client had bought all of his own kit. He then had it installed by an electrician & roofer etc & then had a certificate issued by a third party who had not carried out any work other than certification. This I consider does not comply with REAL code of practice and MCS requirements. Any views ?
Click to expand...

Phil

Not a very good course of action normally, but if the Panels where approved for use, the MCS certificated installer checked on the qualifications of the installers and checked over the whole installation then it would be ok as far as control of External Contractors and Critical Works was concerned. The REAL side could be different in that if the non MCS certified roofer/electrician had entered into a contract with a private client this would not be acceptable post December 2011. As you say this was in November, then it may be ok providing the MCS Certificate holder has carried out his responsibilities.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

elbar said:
We are a small size electrical contactors with MCS accredition for solar PV. We didn't go for your MCS pack but do you offer a package that helps to keep track of installations, etc and help us prepare for the MCS inspection (due October)?
Also, is it alegal requirement to handle all payments for PV installations to conditions set by REAL?
Click to expand...

Elbar

We do offer an ongoing support service and can keep you up to date with all MCS and REAL requirements, as well as helping with spot checks and audits. If you need further details give me a call.

It may or may not be a "Legal Requirement" to comply with REAL, it depends on the situation. For instance, with doorstep selling the client should be given a 7 day cooling off period by law. REAL goes beyond this and insists on a 7 Working Day Cooling Off period for all domestic contracts.

Remember though that REAL are only concerned with domestic work, they do not stipulate what you should do in commercial circumstances. REAL say that you should not take more than 25% deposit from a private client, if this was commercial you could ask for the whole lot up front if you wanted to.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

pjcomp said:
Part of the issue her is the definition of a sub-coontractor. I use a tiler to fit the roof hooks and help me with the rails/modules fitting, but according to my assessor he's working for me so he's not a subby, even though he's self-employed in his own right. I think the difference is if it's someone working under your direct instruction (not a subby) or someone you leave to do the job while you go down the pub (subby) - but I'd be happy to see a proper definition

PJ
pj
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PJ

Sometimes you need to think beyond MCS, if he falls off the roof is he employed by you or is he self employed? If he is self employed you should have (under MCS) a sub contractor agreement in place. If he is working for you he should have a contract of employment. Does he have his own public liability insurance? or will yours pay out for something he does?
Your QMS should be guiding you as to how you should deal with these situations to ensure that you are following good practice.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

sptrotter67 said:
we installed a 10KWp system in October last year but i am being asked by the customer if we meet BREEAM and CIBSE code 4 plus was the system overseen by a specialist commissioning engineer. I have told them that we are MCS/Napit registered, accredited under MCS001 and our engineers are SSEG trained by eco skies plus hold relevant 17th edition and /or elect test certs. What more do they need. Can you advise as to what BREEAM and CIBSE code 4 are and if they relevant for us to install solar PV.
Click to expand...

Nothing under MCS for these. A 10kW system would need liason with the DNO under G59, you should work closely with them and the DNO could decide they need to be present at final commissioning. Are they asking these questions for compliance with something of their own? ISO perhaps.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

When the panels are installed, what actually needs to be tested on the roof please? I know that there are positive and negative DC connections, but will just checking the voltage of each panel (prior to mounting them on the roof) suffice, or do other things need to be checked? Thanks very much in advance.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

SarahB said:
When the panels are installed, what actually needs to be tested on the roof please? I know that there are positive and negative DC connections, but will just checking the voltage of each panel (prior to mounting them on the roof) suffice, or do other things need to be checked? Thanks very much in advance.
Click to expand...

Sarah

I'm here more for the paperwork side than the technical, but you are required to complete a PV Array Test report along with a PV Installation Checklist. You can find the layout for these in the DTI Guide to PV in Buildings, which is the "bible" for the technical side. both these documents would be given to the customer in the Handover Pack and a copy kept for the Contract File.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

EasyMCSLtd said:
Sarah

I'm here more for the paperwork side than the technical, but you are required to complete a PV Array Test report along with a PV Installation Checklist. You can find the layout for these in the DTI Guide to PV in Buildings, which is the "bible" for the technical side. both these documents would be given to the customer in the Handover Pack and a copy kept for the Contract File.
Click to expand...

That's what we do, it seems the persons involved don't know what they're talking about, even NAPIT have the following on their website, "Companies carrying out installation of microgeneration technologies must comply with the relevant Building Regulations. In addition, if installations are to attract funding under the Low Carbon Buildings Programme*, installers must be certificated under the Microgeneration Certification Scheme (MCS) which operates under the authority of the Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC)."

Thankyou for your comments
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I have my MCS assessment visit booked for March, do I need to leave the scaffolding up until then? When my installation is fully tested, am I allowed to leave the system energised (i.e. AC and DC switches closed) for the few weeks until the assessment?
Thanks
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

balbecdaze said:
I have my MCS assessment visit booked for March, do I need to leave the scaffolding up until then? When my installation is fully tested, am I allowed to leave the system energised (i.e. AC and DC switches closed) for the few weeks until the assessment?
Thanks
Click to expand...

With a normal domestic installation you don't need to leave the scaffolding in place, you should however have a step ladder and torch at hand should the assessor require one. I suggest, if you haven't already done so, that you take some photographs of the installation, eg roof penetrations etc.

You can leave the installation switched on, but remember (assuming this is under 16A per phase) that you should inform the DNO within 30 days of connecting to the grid.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

sptrotter67 said:
That's what we do, it seems the persons involved don't know what they're talking about, even NAPIT have the following on their website, "Companies carrying out installation of microgeneration technologies must comply with the relevant Building Regulations. In addition, if installations are to attract funding under the Low Carbon Buildings Programme*, installers must be certificated under the Microgeneration Certification Scheme (MCS) which operates under the authority of the Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC)."

Thankyou for your comments
Click to expand...

Is this more to do with informing Building Control? Remember that in most cases a PV Installation is treated by Building Control as an electrical job. However, there are structural issues involved and this can cause problems. If you have a particular sticking point, give me a call and I'll see if I can help.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

Hi,
I have had a 4.0 kwp PV system installed by an MCS installer last October. All appears to be running well & I've recently received my first modest FIT payment. I'm just a domestic user, not an installer.
Would you tell me please, whether my PV system ever needs to be inspected or have some sort of audit by the MCS or other elevant authority? If so do a get some sort of written notification of such?
Thank you in anticipation of your answer.
JohnnyK.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

JohnnyK-UK said:
Hi,
I have had a 4.0 kwp PV system installed by an MCS installer last October. All appears to be running well & I've recently received my first modest FIT payment. I'm just a domestic user, not an installer.
Would you tell me please, whether my PV system ever needs to be inspected or have some sort of audit by the MCS or other elevant authority? If so do a get some sort of written notification of such?
Thank you in anticipation of your answer.
JohnnyK.
Click to expand...

Johnny

It is possible that the installation may be chosen to be looked at either at re assessment or on an MCS Spotcheck. You would normally be contacted and a convenient day and time arranged.
 
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Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I have completed a NICEIC solar installer course and passed it cost me £660 seems the next stage is to pay easy mcs £500+ for some QMS paperwork it would save me time and money if you could just post a QMS as a downloadable pdf I can then adapt it to suit my business plan. Thanks Rob PS thanks for all your help
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

robassais said:
I have completed a NICEIC solar installer course and passed it cost me £660 seems the next stage is to pay easy mcs £500+ for some QMS paperwork it would save me time and money if you could just post a QMS as a downloadable pdf I can then adapt it to suit my business plan. Thanks Rob PS thanks for all your help
Click to expand...

Rob

There's more to passing than the QMS. The assessor will need to see evidence that you are operating to it. If you need us give us a call.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

Can I ask for advice relating to the Green Deal and prospects for increased business. Being an accredited heatpump installer and having had recent setbacks I am looking to increase the prospects for my company. I suspect the role of the energy assessors could be important and I would like to know whether this would benefit my company. I am looking to increase services we provide as per the green deal list on the NAPIT website. Any advice would be appreciated

Regards

sbrown2
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

sbrown2 said:
Can I ask for advice relating to the Green Deal and prospects for increased business. Being an accredited heatpump installer and having had recent setbacks I am looking to increase the prospects for my company. I suspect the role of the energy assessors could be important and I would like to know whether this would benefit my company. I am looking to increase services we provide as per the green deal list on the NAPIT website. Any advice would be appreciated

Regards

sbrown2
Click to expand...

Final decisions are still to be made on The Green Deal, there is a view that MCS Certification should be accepted as equivalence to whatever is decided on the installation side. It was certainly part of the consultation document that ISO 9001 would be accepted. However, this may be different for the Assessor side.


If you are an MCS Certificated Heat Pump installer, your procedures would cover all you do from beginning to end in regard to a Heat Pump Installation. If you where interested in the energy assessing side you would need to write additional procedures to cover this, with plenty of reference to the "Golden Rule" etc.


We are still awaiting final details on how all this is going to be governed, but we will be keeping our ear to the ground and be ready to go when required. If you want us to keep you in touch with developments you can register your interest at www.greendealcertified.com
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I am sure you can use sub contractors as long as they are "competent and or suitably trained
" i would assume you would be checking and testing their works and if any good could therefore become your aproved subcontractor.
All main contractors use sub contarctors last year we were working for carilion as a sub contractor. the industry in general could not survive if every one had to be employed.
I would make sure they have the appopriate certificates and insurances in place and make up a basic subcontractor pack
Hope this helps some
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

lucky13 said:
I am sure you can use sub contractors as long as they are "competent and or suitably trained
" i would assume you would be checking and testing their works and if any good could therefore become your aproved subcontractor.
All main contractors use sub contarctors last year we were working for carilion as a sub contractor. the industry in general could not survive if every one had to be employed.
I would make sure they have the appopriate certificates and insurances in place and make up a basic subcontractor pack
Hope this helps some
Click to expand...

Lucky

That seems to sum it up perfectly!

When you ask someone to carry out something on your behalf you should be able to provide evidence as to why they where competent to do it.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

what is it all about? is it for everybodyand where will it be held
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I have read through this thread in response to an email notification that you were here and am now thoroughly confused. I am a sole trader (in the literal sense, I am on my own) as an electrician. I have been phoned up several times in the past to do PV installations "in my area", by individuals setting themselves up a accredited installers. To date I have turned down all these approaches and having read this I am glad I did. The desk time needed per installation seems disproportionate to the "work" done and the income gained. By desk time I include training, upgrades, paperwork etc. etc. In now looking into what is involved I now find myself completely baffled as to the difference between Easy MCS and http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/installers/certification-bodies. I can find no mention of yourselves or are you and MCS one and the same?
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

isitintheregs said:
I have read through this thread in response to an email notification that you were here and am now thoroughly confused. I am a sole trader (in the literal sense, I am on my own) as an electrician. I have been phoned up several times in the past to do PV installations "in my area", by individuals setting themselves up a accredited installers. To date I have turned down all these approaches and having read this I am glad I did. The desk time needed per installation seems disproportionate to the "work" done and the income gained. By desk time I include training, upgrades, paperwork etc. etc. In now looking into what is involved I now find myself completely baffled as to the difference between Easy MCS and The Microgeneration Certification Scheme - Certification Bodies. I can find no mention of yourselves or are you and MCS one and the same?
Click to expand...

We are a company who help businesses large and small to gain MCS Certification - we are not the MCS Scheme. We put together your Quality Management System for you, which is usually the main thing that stops, certainly one man bands, going for certification. We assign you a mentor who will guide you through all the requirements, including the competancies you would need to have in place. We don't leave you until you have passed, and will help you with any Non conformities the assessor may raise.

If you need any further details or clarifications please do not hesitate to contact us.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I've had a solar job that the customer has pulled out of. Are their any sites/companies that can help with attaining the leads for accreditation purposes. I'm in the East Midlands Area.

Regards
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

EasyMCSLtd said:
Adam


Since 1st Feb this has changed. You are now required to register the advance payment and, in QANW's case, pay £26.50 to cover both the deposit and the Warranty period. You must not sell this insurance to the client or advise on its suitability, as you are not registered to do so with the FSA.
Click to expand...

So what happens where you don't take a deposit? you don't require the deposit protection ergo the insurance is not a mandatory facility to provide, if one is not allowed to sell it..?
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

sbrown2 said:
I've had a solar job that the customer has pulled out of. Are their any sites/companies that can help with attaining the leads for accreditation purposes. I'm in the East Midlands Area.

Regards
Click to expand...

I can't help with finding you a customer, but it may be worth me mentioning that since December 2011 any company that enters into a contract with a domestic client must be MCS Certified. If the company is not entering into the contract with the client, but is passing you a lead, then you are required to ensure that they have followed the REAL Code. All installation companies should be aware, that if they issue the MCS Certificate then they are responsible for the whole process, installation and sales.
 
Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

flamefix said:
So what happens where you don't take a deposit? you don't require the deposit protection ergo the insurance is not a mandatory facility to provide, if one is not allowed to sell it..?
Click to expand...

This has only come in a couple of weeks ago, the advice we are giving is that you should still register the installation with QANW or your own insurer so that the warranty side is covered.
 

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