Consumer unit reasoning

[GEOFF S]

Hi all


Protection against fire: the fire officer?s view - IET Electrical

Cheers

 

[Engineer54]

The other thing being as i understand it anyway, is that this new amendment is only for domestic installations, so why if the current plastic BS 60695 CU/DB's are so bad, why only to confine to domestic and not say commercial installations?? Does not the same fire risks apply??

 

[Essex_]

The other thing being as i understand it anyway, is that this new amendment is only for domestic installations, so why if the current plastic BS 60695 CU/DB's are so bad, why only to confine to domestic and not say commercial installations?? Does not the same fire risks apply??

I personally would say that a plastic DB would not be satisfactory in a commercial setting due to possible damage anyway. Generally speaking of course.

 

[Engineer54]

Are some really concerned with the safety of steel consumer units? Or are they after a way to prevent Electrical Trainee from pricing them out of work?

I for one can see other problems arising from using metal CU's in domestic sector, and you're right it would have a lot to do with the inexperienced and low skill level of Electrical Trainee's and the like... I can just/only imagine some of the abortions that are coming your way very soon!! lol!!

 

[Paul.M]

The other thing being as i understand it anyway, is that this new amendment is only for domestic installations, so why if the current plastic BS 60695 CU/DB's are so bad, why only to confine to domestic and not say commercial installations?? Does not the same fire risks apply??

Spot on E54. No mention in the london FB report about commercial fires???

I personally would say that a plastic DB would not be satisfactory in a commercial setting due to possible damage anyway. Generally speaking of course.

Yeah but plastic/domestic CU's are used in commercial buildings, eg DB4 supplying the kitchen, situated in a cupboard etc. Have none of these caught fire in the past 10 years whilst this report was ongoing?

 

[Paul.M]

I for one can see other problems arising from using metal CU's in domestic sector, and you're right it would have a lot to do with the inexperienced and low skill level of Electrical Trainee's and the like... I can just/only imagine some of the abortions that are coming your way very soon!! lol!!

I'm buying shares in the "hole saw" & "glanding" companies lol. Also maybe worth a punt at metal cable ties for exit routes

 

[Essex_]

Spot on E54. No mention in the london FB report about commercial fires???



Yeah but plastic/domestic CU's are used in commercial buildings, eg DB4 supplying the kitchen, situated in a cupboard etc. Have none of these caught fire in the past 10 years whilst this report was ongoing?

I hear you but reading the report I think the concern is also that in a domestic setting CUs are usually found under stairs and near front doors so generally a fire there would impede escape.

 

[Jonspark]

I for one can see other problems arising from using metal CU's in domestic sector, and you're right it would have a lot to do with the inexperienced and low skill level of Electrical Trainee's and the like... I can just/only imagine some of the abortions that are coming your way very soon!! lol!!

well they won't be coming my way matey lol!! i do industrial, so i fit steel as standard haha

 

[Jonspark]

I hear you but reading the report I think the concern is also that in a domestic setting CUs are usually found under stairs and near front doors so generally a fire there would impede escape.

There trying to contain fires with the steel consumer units, if some electricians don't tighten up terminals now they never will.

 

[Octopus]

So lets us put a metal cover over flimsy, crappy, far eastern products!

Thats NOT the way to fix the problem

 

[DPG]

Who's going to be the first company that comes up with a suitable non-combustible CU which is NOT made of steel. It doesn't say it has to be steel. And I don't mean asbestos before anyone suggests that Daz

 

[Octopus]

I hear you but reading the report I think the concern is also that in a domestic setting CUs are usually found under stairs and near front doors so generally a fire there would impede escape.

So mains powered, interlinked smokes in houses, 1 near the CU and more elese where would be a better, policy IMHO.

Its not just CU's that catch fire in homes.

 

[davesparks]

There trying to contain fires with the steel consumer units, if some electricians don't tighten up terminals now they never will.

No they aren't, the regulation makes no mention of containing a fire it only requires that the box itself does not catch fire.
There is a big difference between being non combustible and being able to contain a fire!

 

[Engineer54]

You've got to now accept that any reports/statistics coming from any of the interested parties that support the metal only stand, are going to be totally biased towards that end, you'll not be getting any real facts about the alternatives or those materials that conform to current fire retardant BS/EN Standards....

Well not until they start having to backtrack or do the about turns because they haven't originally thought everything through. Knee Jerk reactions generally throw up all sorts of unforeseen problems, that cause other knee Jerk reactions, and so it goes on!! It used to be called ''Management By Crisis'' and it tends to get to be a very expensive exercise when left to it's own devices....

 

[Paul.M]

So mains powered, interlinked smokes in houses, 1 near the CU and more elese where would be a better, policy IMHO.

Its not just CU's that catch fire in homes.

I really like that idea. Make it a reg on all new builds/rewires and CU changes to have a smoke detector within 3m of the CU. Easy and cheap.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Schneider Electric welcomes a new consumer unit regulation, while asserting choice of manufacturer is key - Electrical Contracting News (ECN)

Reading that, it appears the manufacturers are largely responsible!
Bakelite gets a positive mention

 

[Spoon]

I really like that idea. Make it a reg on all new builds/rewires and CU changes to have a smoke detector within 3m of the CU. Easy and cheap.

Its still not solving the problem of poorly manufactured CU's and idiots installing them.
You might as well invent a small capsule that you fit inside the CU's that breaks under heat. The capsule fills the CU with foam... Problem solved...

 

[Octopus]

Its still not solving the problem of poorly manufactured CU's and idiots installing them.
You might as well invent a small capsule that you fit inside the CU's that breaks under heat. The capsule fills the CU with foam... Problem solved...

you are right its not BUT mandatory introduction of smoke alarms will also detect fires started by smokes, candles, open fires........

 

[Paul.M]

Its still not solving the problem of poorly manufactured CU's and idiots installing them.

Already been mentioned mate, better materials or design for the terminations.

You might as well invent a small capsule that you fit inside the CU's that breaks under heat. The capsule fills the CU with foam... Problem solved...

Fike have designed a smoke bomb capsule for just this type of fire. Sadly it can not be installed in domestic properties. A domestic CU in the cupboard under the stairs full with coats and other combustible items, a smoke detector could save lifes and property.

 

[Jonspark]

No they aren't, the regulation makes no mention of containing a fire it only requires that the box itself does not catch fire.
There is a big difference between being non combustible and being able to contain a fire!

it's all about containment, thats why your allowed to enclose the cu in a non combustible unit.

 

[HandySparks]

it's all about containment, thats why your allowed to enclose the cu in a non combustible unit.

Although, as I understand it, a CU is still allowed to have IP2X holes in the sides and bottom. Bit of a poor fire barrier!