Instant tankless electric water heater?

[DuckyUC]

Hi everyone

I try to buy/find a Instant tankless electric water heater in uk
as the flat I living in have no gas
and I want instant hot water supply

I contacted coop energy today and they able to do a upgrade of electric service to 100Amp, so now the question is what is the highest kw/amp water heater I could use?

Model	Recommended Breaker	Maximum Amperage @240V	Recommended Household Electric Service	Recommended Minimum Wire Gauge
ECO 27	3 x 40 Amps DP	112.5 Amps	200 Amps	3 x #8 AWG
ECO 24	3 x 40 Amps DP	100.0 Amps	200 Amps	3 x #8 AWG
ECO 21	3 x 40 Amps DP	87.5 Amps	200 Amps	3 x #8 AWG
ECO 18	2 x 40 Amps DP	75.0 Amps	150 Amps	2 x #8 AWG
ECO 11	1 x 60 Amps DP	57.0 Amps	125 Amps	1 x #6 AWG
ECO 8	1 x 40 Amps DP	33.0 Amps	100 Amps	1 x #8 AWG
POU 6	1 x 30 Amps	29.0 Amps	100 Amps	1 x #10 AWG
POU 3.5	1 x 30 Amps	29.0 Amps	100 Amps	1 x #10 AWG

I know the ECO 8 is the open it recommend, but is it possible to fit ECO 21/18/11? as there will be a "save margin" for the Max amp use. I prefer the ECO 18 so even at the peak there still 25Amp left

 

[DuckyUC]

That is a 2Bed 2Bath City Flat locate in Birmingham,UK
So it would be good to have enough power for 2 shower if possible
Household electric service @ Max 100 Amp

I have the similar thread in plumber forum (same title) but moved to here as it become a electrician question!

 

[DuckyUC]

Household electric service @ Max 100 Amp Single phase from power supplier Coop energy

 

[monkeyelectric]

Hi everyone

I try to buy/find a Instant tankless electric water heater in uk
as the flat I living in have no gas
and I want instant hot water supply

I contacted coop energy today and they able to do a upgrade of electric service to 100Amp, so now the question is what is the highest kw/amp water heater I could use?

Model	Recommended Breaker	Maximum Amperage @240V	Recommended Household Electric Service	Recommended Minimum Wire Gauge
ECO 27	3 x 40 Amps DP	112.5 Amps	200 Amps	3 x #8 AWG
ECO 24	3 x 40 Amps DP	100.0 Amps	200 Amps	3 x #8 AWG
ECO 21	3 x 40 Amps DP	87.5 Amps	200 Amps	3 x #8 AWG
ECO 18	2 x 40 Amps DP	75.0 Amps	150 Amps	2 x #8 AWG
ECO 11	1 x 60 Amps DP	57.0 Amps	125 Amps	1 x #6 AWG
ECO 8	1 x 40 Amps DP	33.0 Amps	100 Amps	1 x #8 AWG
POU 6	1 x 30 Amps	29.0 Amps	100 Amps	1 x #10 AWG
POU 3.5	1 x 30 Amps	29.0 Amps	100 Amps	1 x #10 AWG

I know the ECO 8 is the open it recommend, but is it possible to fit ECO 21/18/11? as there will be a "save margin" for the Max amp use. I prefer the ECO 18 so even at the peak there still 25Amp left

I think you need an electrician!

 

[DuckyUC]

Yes you are right I am not go to install in myself as I want to alive, but the problem is I have to order these from US seller as UK don't have much instant electric water heater(most ppl in uk use instant gas heater/electric storage heater) so I want to know which one suitable for me, in term of both safety and comfort. I already send few email to local electrician about the same question and waiting for reply.

 

[monkeyelectric]

Yes you are right I am not go to install in myself as I want to alive, but the problem is I have to order these from US seller as UK don't have much instant electric water heater(most ppl in uk use instant gas heater/electric storage heater) so I want to know which one suitable for me, in term of both safety and comfort. I already send few email to local electrician about the same question and waiting for reply.

Usa stuff will probably not work over here anyway, you need to re-think your plan! Or search uk sites as i have just done for electric boilers Electric Combination Boilers by Redring, Trianco, EHC + More.

 

[DuckyUC]

Thanks! what brand/web you recommend for the instant electric water heater?

 

[monkeyelectric]

Don't know i've never installed one of that size, best off giving them a call

 

[DuckyUC]

omg, why the instant electric water heater so much more expensive in uk!

 

[DuckyUC]

omg, why the instant electric water heater so much more expensive in uk!

Thanks, it seem for some reason the single phase instant electric water heater in uk can't have a power beyond 12kw? I try but can't find the reason/document about this limit, if anyone know why please let me know!

 

[bertt]

Hi,

I hope you already found what you looking for.
100A/240V one phase will be 24000W (or 24KW) huge for domestic single instant as demand.

Think about the lime scale inhibitor as well (for water you warm up)
In some UK areas the water it is very hard.

Options:

Lime Scale Inhibitor &

1. 1 big instant electric heater 27KW for entire house. or,
2. 1 electric boiler for entire house hot water preparation or,
3. One or a few(3-5) electric instants heaters as Electric shower(8KW), Sinks Water Heater (3.5KW) …

An electric boiler (B)will be I think the better solution probably for your needs.

Try as well a little chat with an electrician about your detail as advice at least.
Some web addresses:
Ecosmart Electric Tankless Water Heater review
Under Sink Water Heater Unvented Water Heaters at CNM Online UK

Thank you.

bertt.

 

[Outspoken]

Whats the matter with an immersion heater in the flipping cupboard...that way you can run a bath without nit running cold, you can make use of cheaper electricity overnight and just ensure you insulate the tank properly, you can run a power shower from it, can't do that with an instant, and Instantaneous water heaters are a real pain in the bum when they go wrong.

 

[DuckyUC]

Lime Scale issue are not the problem as birmingham have a very soft water in the country(only harder than Manchester)

Immersion heater are too slow, I really hate waiting an hour for the water warming up when I come back from a trip.

I just find the highest power instant water heater is about 14.4kw, know which brand are good? As ecosmart are us brand may not fit uk regulation?(also repair problem)

the pain in the bum is the reason I try to find a good instant heater with a decent temp control which is why the ecosmart look good to me.

 

[monkeyelectric]

Lime Scale issue are not the problem as birmingham have a very soft water in the country(only harder than Manchester)

Immersion heater are too slow, I really hate waiting an hour for the water warming up when I come back from a trip.

I just find the highest power instant water heater is about 14.4kw, know which brand are good? As ecosmart are us brand may not fit uk regulation?(also repair problem)

the pain in the bum is the reason I try to find a good instant heater with a decent temp control which is why the ecosmart look good to me.

Fit a timer to the immersion, or/and rf control via the internet on your smartphone

 

[DuckyUC]

Um... Can you recommend the brand in UK have these function, I can forget about the instant heat idea

- - - Updated - - -

the rf control via the internet,not just the timer

 

[Outspoken]

Chap, there is a good reason why the biggest domestic instant water heater is rated at about 15kW, that is because it will draw some 65.22A from a single phase supply and depending on how the cable is installed (insulation, buried in walls etc) and what cable is used it would not only look damned ugly, but would be something in the region of 16mm² or possibly 25mm² SWA! To work this out accurately would need to know actual circuit specs, but do you start to understand?

If you bought the 24kW unit on your list that will draw some 104A from the supply which would be either a 25mm² or a 35mm² SWA...wholly impractical.

 

[DuckyUC]

I try to google a decent 14.4kw instant water heater which exist in uk and forget the us heater idea, any brand recommended?
I find EHC Fusion but not sure are they good? Too few brand offer these product.

 

[DuckyUC]

Yes I understand the idea now, The max amp for household is 100A, the max amp for heater at 60A, about 60% of the Max limit leave 40% "save margin"

 

[DuckyUC]

Best 14.4kw+ Single Phase Instant electric water heater exist in UK?

Hi everyone

I try to buy/find a Instant tankless electric water heater in uk
as the flat I living in have no gas
and I want instant hot water supply

looking for a water heater that:

Instant Heat up water (no more 1 hour waiting)
Use Electric (no gas no coal no LPG)
Single Phase (no money upgrade to 3 Phase,no sure is it even possible for a flat)
14.4kw+ power (looking for higher power for 2 bathroom,14.4kw are the highest power I seen so far in uk)
Do sale and exist in uk (maintain/repair/UK regulation issue)

Any brand you know with comment are great!whatever good or bad

more detail:
My flat in birmingham have soft water,lime scale is not an issue(5X softer than london)
Able to upgrade the household electric service to 100Amp

many thanks for your help!
my last post about america heater http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...kless-electric-water-heater-2.html#post772440

 

[DuckyUC]

Re: Best 14.4kw+ Single Phase Instant electric water heater exist in UK?

[h=1][/h][h=2]EHC Slim Jim 14.4kW[/h]EHC Fusion 14.4KW[h=2]EHC Fusion Electric System Boiler 14.4 KW[/h][h=1][/h][h=1]Comet 14.4kW Electric Boiler[/h]Any other brand? not much I found on google

 

[DuckyUC]

Re: Best 14.4kw+ Single Phase Instant electric water heater exist in UK?

they are all about £1k include VAT, Comet look better from my view,but no idea it is good or not.

 

[Outspoken]

Re: Best 14.4kw+ Single Phase Instant electric water heater exist in UK?

Does this really need a second thread when you already have one going on the same subject FFS!!

 

[Guest55]

Re: Best 14.4kw+ Single Phase Instant electric water heater exist in UK?

i'm not surprised youve not found much , 14.4kw is a whopping 63A on single phase.

can you not make do with a hot water bottle ?
;-)

 

[DuckyUC]

Re: Best 14.4kw+ Single Phase Instant electric water heater exist in UK?

Sorry, cause the content is changed,
in 1st thread I think about to get ecosmart and ask for opinion, during the discussion I know it is better to get a water heater in UK
in 2nd thread is ask about the best single phase electric water heater in the uk market, so ppl can know what I asking exactly after I changed mind.
So although the title are similar and 1st 3 line are the same 2 thread are discussing 2 difference topic(but for same purpose - get a fit water heater)

 

[DuckyUC]

Re: Best 14.4kw+ Single Phase Instant electric water heater exist in UK?

using kettle is a good idea,
Safe, easy to maintain and repair.

The only down size is taking 3hours to do a shower.

- - - Updated - - -

down side

 

[Marvo]

Re: Best 14.4kw+ Single Phase Instant electric water heater exist in UK?

Why do you need such a large instant water heater. As Biff pointed out it's going to require a single phase supply of over 60Amps which is rediculously large for a domestic hot water heater. Cant you install a small Stiebel Eltron or something similar with a small amount of storage capacity.

 

[Marvo]

It causes confusion when there's two very similar threads so I've merged them for you.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

we`v just installed a potterton 9KW at a community centre in Leeds....
they require a seperate supply to the internal panel....
so this would be wired in 1.5 from the DP iso into an FCU....and then into the panel...
its slender...say about 250mm wide by about 900 tall....
its on a 10mm CSA flat twin fed by 40A b curve MCB

 

[DuckyUC]

Re: Best 14.4kw+ Single Phase Instant electric water heater exist in UK?

Why do you need such a large instant water heater. As Biff pointed out it's going to require a single phase supply of over 60Amps which is rediculously large for a domestic hot water heater. Cant you install a small Stiebel Eltron or something similar with a small amount of storage capacity.

So how many kw needed to support 2 shower at the same time during the winter + kitchen washing machine/dish washer?
14.4kw/60Amp seem a lot but that is talking about the peak usage during the winter time. Most of the time only will be about 1/3-1/2 of the max load. If I get an under power heater 2 showers can't operate at the same that will lose the point of having 2 bathroom really. The water heater only cost about 1-2% value of the flat itself it is really no point to save money by get an under power water heater.

 

[DuckyUC]

Oh I just notice I can edit the post, let me change the opening to the new question.

 

[DuckyUC]

New question, Should I find electrician or plumber to install an instant electric water heater?
I googled it said find part P plumber are the best for this job?

 

[Marvo]

Re: Best 14.4kw+ Single Phase Instant electric water heater exist in UK?

So how many kw needed to support 2 shower at the same time during the winter + kitchen washing machine/dish washer?
14.4kw/60Amp seem a lot but that is talking about the peak usage during the winter time. Most of the time only will be about 1/3-1/2 of the max load. If I get an under power heater 2 showers can't operate at the same that will lose the point of having 2 bathroom really. The water heater only cost about 1-2% value of the flat itself it is really no point to save money by get an under power water heater.

With hot water requirements you can apply a certain amount of diversity same as you can apply to electrical peak loads. Unless you have a massive family or a small guest house I wouldn't size the heater to the maximum possible hot water requirement. I have 5 bathrooms with 3 showers and 2 baths between them and we have a 150litre HWC immersion heater, we don't ever run short of water even though the same sized cylinder would be used in a single bathroomed flat for example. I think you've convinced yourself you need a 14.4kW heater but I think it would be worth getting some professional advice from a plumber before committing to the capital outlay and high installation costs of such a large system.

In answer to your last question you can get anyone who's competent to perform the installation. I personally would get a plumber to install the heater and the pipework and get an electrician to install the supply and isolator etc.

 

[DuckyUC]

Re: Best 14.4kw+ Single Phase Instant electric water heater exist in UK?

With hot water requirements you can apply a certain amount of diversity same as you can apply to electrical peak loads. Unless you have a massive family or a small guest house I wouldn't size the heater to the maximum possible hot water requirement. I have 5 bathrooms with 3 showers and 2 baths between them and we have a 150litre HWC immersion heater, we don't ever run short of water even though the same sized cylinder would be used in a single bathroomed flat for example. I think you've convinced yourself you need a 14.4kW heater but I think it would be worth getting some professional advice from a plumber before committing to the capital outlay and high installation costs of such a large system.

In answer to your last question you can get anyone who's competent to perform the installation. I personally would get a plumber to install the heater and the pipework and get an electrician to install the supply and isolator etc.

Good idea, after I contacted the EHC 14.4kw manufacturer I notice that is not a instant electric water heater, it is design for central heater , now I plan to install the ZIP DEX12 11kw/48A model, I phoned several plumber and one of them did said what you said he need to get a quote from a electrician to know the whole cost of the project.