LED Lamps and extractor fan problems..

[ash_s3]

A friend of mine has just replaced some halogen GU10 lamps in his bathroom with LED lamps from Amazon.

Hes saying since swapping the lamps, the extractor fan runs continuously. (230v in-line unit in the loft with over run timer)

He tried swapping one LED lamp back to halogen and it worked as it should, timing out after 5mins or so.

Removed the halogen (with the lights switched off) and the fan fired up by itself!

Anyone come across this before? Sounds like a resistance issue to me, would a resistor sort this out?

Cheers

 

[uksparks]

+1 for capacitive coupling.

If it all works fine with gu10s then misbehaves with LEDs fitted then I don't see how it can be connected incorrectly.

How much voltage are we talking about here?

Also, when you say it turns the fan on, if it was only a capacitive thing, then surely it will run out this making the fan switch off on the end of its timer run?

 

[uksparks]

Your point being..?

Just saying really, didn't have any comment on it, just for the lesser educated on how its connected thats all, more information than anything.

 

[HandySparks]

How much voltage are we talking about here?

Also, when you say it turns the fan on, if it was only a capacitive thing, then surely it will run out this making the fan switch off on the end of its timer run?

We're not talking about DC filling up a cap which then triggers the fan. The capacitive coupling is AC, providing a weak link between the perm live and switched live; it's a continuous process, so 'running out' doesn't come into it.

No idea of the voltages involved. The voltage required to trigger the fan and the input impedance will vary from one model to the next.

 

[ash_s3]

Just saying really, didn't have any comment on it, just for the lesser educated on how its connected thats all, more information than anything.

This is how I see it.
The permanent live is always at the fan, this permanent live is inducing a voltage in the switched live of the 3c&e, the LED lamps won't illuminate with such small voltage so the voltage stays in the conductor.
With halogens, the voltage is dropped through the filament?
i take it that with these timer fans, the motor runs off the perm live and the switched live is just a trigger to start the timer? So even a small voltage could trigger it?

 

[tazz]

Then the SWL and L to the fan must be wired incorrectly with the lighting circuit.....by removing the halogens which you state brings on the fan, whilst switch off. I would Ask where is the fan getting the SWL voltage from..?

 

[uksparks]

I'm sticking with the theory of its wired incorrectly. I don't buy the inductance thing, we are talking about a bathroom light not a supermarket full of lights.

It's been poorly wired and incorrectly too and we have not been told the full picture like I've frigged around with it and don't know what I'm doing....

 

[ImpededLoop]

Not experienced this myself, but if it is wired correctly, you could install a relay next to the fan or the isolator to disconnect the SL from the lamps when the switch is off.

 

[davesparks]

How much voltage are we talking about here?

Also, when you say it turns the fan on, if it was only a capacitive thing, then surely it will run out this making the fan switch off on the end of its timer run?

How can capacitive coupling run out?

If the trigger for the fan is over sensitive then it could take next to nothing to trigger it.

 

[davesparks]

I'm sticking with the theory of its wired incorrectly. I don't buy the inductance thing, we are talking about a bathroom light not a supermarket full of lights.

It's been poorly wired and incorrectly too and we have not been told the full picture like I've frigged around with it and don't know what I'm doing....

You're mixing inductance and capacitance up, they are two different things.

Capacitive coupling is the effect which caused CFLs to flash and LEDs to glow/flash when installed on some 2 way switched circuits.

In what way are you suggesting it has been wired incorrectly? Can you describe the wiring method you think will cause this bizarre behaviour? I am curious as I cannot think of any way of connecting this which will cause he behaviour described.

 

[uksparks]

I can't think what it could be but I bet your bottom dollar that there's more to this than is made out.

 

[davesparks]

I can't think what it could be but I bet your bottom dollar that there's more to this than is made out.

If you can't come up with a way of connecting this that will cause the problem then why state that the problem is with the way if is connected ?

Random speculation doesn't help anyone.

 

[i=p/u]

short between live conductors when bird sits on roof.....

 

[ash_s3]

It's wired correctly as I installed it about 18 months ago.
Hager J804 in the loft, feed in, twin to pull cord, twin to spotlights and a 3c&e to TP fan isolator then onto the fan.
Fan is a Manrose MF100T, wiring hasn't been interfered with in the meantime.

 

[topquark]

Substitute the switch (or check the resistance across contacts in off position if you don't have a spare on you).

 

[Silly Sausage]

It's wired correctly as I installed it about 18 months ago.
Hager J804 in the loft, feed in, twin to pull cord, twin to spotlights and a 3c&e to TP fan isolator then onto the fan.
Fan is a Manrose MF100T, wiring hasn't been interfered with in the meantime.

Wire it with the Line and S/L on the outer cores, N in the middle.

 

[uksparks]

If you can't come up with a way of connecting this that will cause the problem then why state that the problem is with the way if is connected ?

Random speculation doesn't help anyone.

Sorry master Dave

 

[ash_s3]

Archy- You think it's picking up the voltage for the contacts inside the isolator?

 

[Silly Sausage]

Archy- You think it's picking up the voltage for the contacts inside the isolator?

Sorry, a bit vague there, I mean the cable.
May as well do the same at the isolator.

If it isn't already wired this way, give it a try and let us know the result...put us all out of our misery! :smilielol5:

 

[HandySparks]

Wire it with the Line and S/L on the outer cores, N in the middle.

Yep, worth a try.

 

[ash_s3]

Sorry chaps I'm not really following here.

Connecting the Line and S-Line opposite ends of the isolator - is this to keep the cores apart in the pattress?