UK Legal Details - Sockets - Where is the requirement for separate socket earths to be linked?

[DPG]

I've ordered the cheaper one, lets have a look tomorrow.

Edit: I also forgot to say on my earlier post, if one of these was installed at the start of a radial circuit the other accessories would be left with no earth.

Also a metal backbox would not be earthed as it appears to have no earth contact with the fixing screws.

Be interesting to see what you find.

 

[wilmer000]

Have you bothered to read the OSG details I provided?

Hi Pete, I'm not an installer so don't have easy access to the OSG, but I have certainly tried and did manage to dig up an "Electricians guide to the IET" (17th ed though), and I really appreciate the effort everyone is making to help. As I understand it, this type of socket is aimed at use where the equipment used on the ring can collectively (if not individually where they would need wiring in) generate a high protective current (mainly office buildings) and the sockets being installed must have 2 earth terminals. These terminals each link to one end of the ring, and to each other and a duplicate earth or metal conduit (to ensure the earth is protected in case of a component/socket failure). As such I guess the verdict is that the sockets are likely to pass BS 1363/Plug and socket regs, and be legal to sell, but the installer will be responsible to ensure safe fitting. That means to bridge the two terminals with a suitable conductor and run duplicate conductor/metal trunking in in the office setting. In the domestic setting an installer would just bridge the two earth terminals (unless the householder was going to have a host of PCs installed and needed duplicate earth wire/trunking) - In the DIY arena the bridging of terminals is unlikely to happen all the time, and would depend on the user's level of ability and desire to read the instructions, but remains legal-but-iffy to use. Does that sound about right?

 

[Lucien Nunes]

In general, all PE terminals are interconnected on any device, including electrical accessories, except for deliberately separate clean earth connections. Socket outlets with two PE terminals for the purpose of high integrity earthing always have them internally linked, so that all points remain earthed if any one terminal loses continuity (which would defeat any wire link installed between them.)

What do the manufacturers' instructions say about this product? Do they specifically call attention to the need to earth both terminals? As @netblindpaul points out, there isn't a law about socket-outlet construction (just as there aren't laws about wiring) but if it incorrectly claims compliance with a standard, or fails to meet general provisions for safety, or lacks the necessary instructions to enable it to be used safely, it might be an offence to sell it.

 

[netblindpaul]

where you bin hiding? long time no see. ?

I rarely post because there are so many adverts on here I can’t be bothered most of the time to have to put up with the barrage, and I don’t like the cookie policy. As I understand it it requires you to allow too much cross site tracking and persistent cookies. I don’t believe that they are essential.
So it means that I have to log in every time and it is just too much hassle for me to bother with.
Plus I have been busy with other things.

 

[telectrix]

i use adblock. the only ads i see are the forum sponsorson the right side of my screen.

 

[netblindpaul]

i use adblock. the only ads i see are the forum sponsorson the right side of my screen.

Hassle on mobile devices though and I've not been at a computer so much recently.
Plus I have enough in having to know the details of half a dozen pieces of law, keep up with the changes in these and the several hundred standards that are linked to the product safety legislation without getting involved with any legislation and standards outside this, so I don’t like that the forum has ”gone international”, can’t be bothered to find out the location of the poster, and thus the requirements of the law and standards behind the question. Just too much hassle.

 

[DPG]

Hassle on mobile devices though and I've not been at a computer so much recently.
Plus I have enough in having to know the details of half a dozen pieces of law, keep up with the changes in these and the several hundred standards that are linked to the product safety legislation without getting involved with any legislation and standards outside this, so I don’t like that the forum has ”gone international”, can’t be bothered to find out the location of the poster, and thus the requirements of the law and standards behind the question. Just too much hassle.

One click on the poster's name gives you their location. Just ignore any non UK ones. And the American and Australian ones have their own section anyway.

 

[Strima]

So it turned up today. As pointed out by the OP there's no continuity across the earth terminations. If this was installed in a ring final the CPC would be discontinuous, two or more would mean sockets with no CPC present. If installed in a radial circuit every single socket afterwards would have no CPC.

Sorry the pictures are on the lash...

The only time you may get CPC continuity is if you installed this accessory in a metal backbox with fixed lugs. But the earth tags are loose and rely on the clamping screw to secure them in place.

The instructions are minimal bordering on dangerous, no mention of earth continuity.

Overall the unit feels cheap and tatty, I also found it difficult to put a BS1363 plug into the socket without excessive force.

Even the fixing screws are sharp, I haven't measured them but they look oversize.

My advice, stay away, if you have one fitted or see it on an installation get rid.

I'll be in touch with electrical safety first shortly.

 

[pc1966]

That really is a rubbish design and hopefully trading standards will do something about them. Ideally stop sales and force a product recall.

As you say, it is going to lead to no CPCs in one or more location depending on how it is installed unless someone is very diligent and discovered CPC links are needed at every socket.

Realistically, it is a fatal accident waiting to happen.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Deeply ambiguous instructions - show two G/Y cables but only refer to one - and patchy construction. Those contacts look pretty awful, they might be tight now (or undersize) but I wouldn't trust them to make good contact in five years time. No matter, the soldering of the line contacts to the PCB will probably have given way with metal fatigue by then if they get much use. Flimsy-looking line input termination that probably won't last at 20A.

OTOH it looks like the PCB itself might be reasonably well designed. There seems to be good creepage distance across the barrier c/w slotting where needed e.g under the relays and at the SMPSU transformer. The critical components such as the Y-cap across the barrier, non-flam / fusible resistors etc seem correctly specified and not skimped, although it's the electrolytics that will surely decide its fate and I can't see their faces. Personally I'd have given the relays a bit more airflow but I've seen worse.

Anyway, will be interesting to hear what if anything you get back. I won't be fitting any.

 

[Strima]

So you all have a choice now, JW or Big Clive?

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Or me? Launch my channel with it?

 

[DPG]

Or me? Launch my channel with it?

Go for it!

 

[nicebutdim]

Kudos to the OP for spotting this. I wonder how many of these are out in the wild, just waiting for the worst to happen...

 

[brianmoooore]

I'll be in touch with electrical safety first shortly.

Be interesting to see what CEF have to say as well, since it appears they supply them. You expect cheap, non compliant tat on ebay and Amazon, but not from a major trade supplier.

 

[Strima]

Or me? Launch my channel with it?

If you want it.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Go on then. I promise not to set it on fire* or subject it to gratuitous violence.

*with petrol, although if it catches fire with electricity, that is its own lookout.

 

[Strima]

Go on then. I promise not to set it on fire* or subject it to gratuitous violence.

*with petrol, although if it catches fire with electricity, that is its own lookout.

Message me your address and I’ll get it sent tomorrow. Hermes or Post Office?

 

[netblindpaul]

So it is legal to have two separate unlinked earth terminals in a socket? BS 1363-2 doesn't seem to specify there must be a single termination, but it doesn't seem right to me as you could end up wiring one side of the loop into each termination, and split the earth loop by accident. either that or you end up with an unearthed socket. (or have to fit a link between the two. ) but is it legal? that's the question!

The law is not as specific as to give the level of detail you seek.
The EHSR’s of the law merely require the product to be safe.
A BS is not law and is not mandatory.
However deviations from a BS would mean that the manufacturers would have to be able to justify the same or greater safety than afforded by following the relevant BS product standards.
(much simplified explanation)

 

[netblindpaul]

So you all have a choice now, JW or Big Clive?

Electrical Safety First.
Please give them as much detail as possible.