mixed circuits

[growler]

Im currently in the process of 1st fixing a load of flats for a company as a subby. ive been told to do a kitchen appliance ring on a grid switch and also a radial for a microwave off the same grid switch. Also there is a heat recovery system and they want the boost switches as part of the light switches. Usually i would do a seperate spur for a microwave and have the boost switches seperate next to the light switches. Im just concerned it wont be obvious that there is actually two seperate circuits in the grid / light switches. Seems like bad practice to me !
Your thoughts would be appreciated !

 

[jumpin jax]

As long as they are labelled, then a switch is a switch

 

[growler]

As long as they are labelled, then a switch is a switch

True....

 

[mark ju]

More to the point...an appliance ring off a grid switch??
We always made all the appliances as radials fed from the grid switch/fuse layout. The grid switch was then part of the kitchen ring.

 

[growler]

More to the point...an appliance ring off a grid switch??
We always made all the appliances as radials fed from the grid switch/fuse layout. The grid switch was then part of the kitchen ring.

this is what it is.

 

[Guest55]

Im trying to picture this kitch ring / grid switch set-up.
Does the ring start / finish at the grid or the CU. ?
If its from the grid , then all the grid switch modules will need to be rated at 32A unless i've got this all wrong ?
mark ju's idea sounds better and is the more conventional method.

 

[Guitarist]

Im currently in the process of 1st fixing a load of flats for a company as a subby. ive been told to do a kitchen appliance ring on a grid switch and also a radial for a microwave off the same grid switch. Also there is a heat recovery system and they want the boost switches as part of the light switches. Usually i would do a seperate spur for a microwave and have the boost switches seperate next to the light switches. Im just concerned it wont be obvious that there is actually two seperate circuits in the grid / light switches. Seems like bad practice to me !
Your thoughts would be appreciated !

It is bad practice on a new install, but you can always put a "Voltage from 2 supplies" type sticker above the terminals. I have done this when I come across upstairs and downstairs lighting supplies, separate, but on the same 2 gang switch.

 

[mackers]

It is bad practice on a new install, but you can always put a "Voltage from 2 supplies" type sticker above the terminals. I have done this when I come across upstairs and downstairs lighting supplies, separate, but on the same 2 gang switch.

bad practice? interesting how should it be done?

 

[Guest55]

bad practice? interesting how should it be done?

I'd be using a Dual backbox with seperate front plates for switching lights and heater boost.
just an idea anyway lol.

 

[Ponty Massive]

I'd be using a Dual backbox with seperate front plates for switching lights and heater boost.
just an idea anyway lol.

How do you fit a 2-gang switch for the landing / hallway if upstairs and down stairs are on different circuits?

 

[mackers]

I'd be using a Dual backbox with seperate front plates for switching lights and heater boost.
just an idea anyway lol.

biff mate,was meaning for the 2g

 

[Guest55]

How do you fit a 2-gang switch for the landing / hallway if upstairs and down stairs are on different circuits?

At what point did i mention 2 way hall lighting ?
I was refering to the OP's original enquiry concerning the kitchen wiring.

 

[trev]

Looks like I'm answering a rhetorical question.
Or just talking bolox again

 

[Guest55]

But to answer your question , well you cant can you ?
As its only a house with only 2 lighting circuits its not going to be that difficult to isolate both so i wouldnt lose any sleep over it.

 

[mackers]

Pretty easily mate, it's not something I like doing but suppose downstairs is a 1 way, you have the normal feed to sw and switched live from the downstairs circuit. Upstairs is a 2 way so you take the 3 core from the upstairs 2wsw to the downstairs 2w and there you have it

trev read the post mate lol its been said that this is bad practice

 

[Guitarist]

How do you fit a 2-gang switch for the landing / hallway if upstairs and down stairs are on different circuits?

Quite easily. 2 switches with 2 boxes, 1 for upstairs and 1 for down.
Not many bother, but if you want to do it by the book....

 

[Guest55]

And as to the claim of "bad practice" , i call bullcrap on that.
If you follow proper safe isolation proceedures then it doesnt matter if theres 4 circuits in the switch box , there will be no risk.
Folk just dont like being faced with something out of the norm.

 

[trev]

Well I'm going with the bad practice on this one. yes if you follow safe isolation there should never be a problem but imho it's normal to have 1 circuit at any given point not two and for the so called extra work involved. that's the bullcrap thing.

 

[Guitarist]

You are absolutely right biff. I was wrong to say that not following the regs is bad practice...yet again. I thought I was merely stating quite an elegant solution to maintaining separation, but yet again your statement that anyone who doesn't agree with you is talking "bullcrap" keeps me nicely in my place.

 

[mackers]

Quite easily. 2 switches with 2 boxes, 1 for upstairs and 1 for down.
Not many bother, but if you want to do it by the book....

as said by biff safe isolation no prob !
its ok to have 400v at a switch so can see no prob with 230v
which book is that i dont remember reading that one! lol
i would say its common practice not bad practice

 

[StuSpiers]

Mixed circuits is not right no.

Another solution for landing 2way is to have either the hall/landing light on the opposite circuit.

That way you can have one switch box and only one circuit in use.

Careful not to borrow those neutrals/lives though.

 

[Guest55]

You are absolutely right biff. I was wrong to say that not following the regs is bad practice...yet again. I thought I was merely stating quite an elegant solution to maintaining separation, but yet again your statement that anyone who doesn't agree with you is talking "bullcrap" keeps me nicely in my place.

I can tell youre upset.

 

[Guitarist]

I can tell youre upset.

If you don't agree with something, then so be it. We are all entitled to our own opinions on things, but don't call something "bullcrap", simply because it's not how you do it.
2 circuits at 1 point IS bad practice these days, unless labelled as such. This is because someone may isolate the light switch, test it, then go prodding about, only to find that there were 2 feeds in there and they had only tested 1. The regs are updated based on what becomes apparent over time, and this old chestnut is one of those things.
I realise that any good electrician will test ALL cables before making the decision that it is safely isolated, but many sparkys new to the game simply don't.

 

[Guest55]

Then i apologise for my blunt post.
I just assumed that experienced sparks such as yourself would not be fazed by a relatively minor issue.

 

[trev]

My mentor once told me to go change a 2g2w and that he had isolated the circuit so off I went. As I was loosening the cables he crept up behind me and screamed BANG right in my ear, when I asked him why he did that he asked me how I knew there were not 2 circuits at that switch and how I knew one or both were isolated, lesson learned, never trust anyone or anything when they tell you it's dead.
I've since done exactly the same with both of my sons

 

[sedgy34]

The op is a subby and should either do as told and label it or just ask his superior the question the company must 1st fix like this and label the back of the switch, or the customer doesn't want switches next to switches

 

[alarm man]

but many sparkys new to the game simply don't.

thats not an excuse,tho in the past we have all been guilty of switching off the supply marked xx and crack on,these days its by the letter, its test ,double test and one for luck,its giving me ocd i swear.:yes:

 

[trev]

these days its by the letter, its test ,double test and one for luck,its giving me ocd i swear.:yes:

Better that than a funeral though mate?

 

[Guest55]

Although i must say that i never said i would do it this way nor advised anyone to put 2 circuits in 1 box did i ?

 

[sedgy34]

Growler I think you have mis understood what you have been asked to do, I've just re read your issue and I don't think your being asked to put 2 circuits in 1 grid box. "I maybe wrong here"