Non Fire Rated Lights

[intrelec]

We're doing a refurb of a takeaway restaurant. Client has asked us to re-use existing downlights and provided some additional ones of the same type which aren't fire rated.
We've advised that these should be changed but he doesn't want to as 'they were fine before'.
It's a metal framed suspended ceiling with double skinned plasterboard and there are flats above, but not sure of the building fabric above the suspended ceiling.
Should I still go ahead and issue a test cert and list this as a departure from regulation 559.3.1 and that the lights are supplied by the Client?
I need payment for the other works and don't want to get stuck on this due to what they've supplied.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Double skinned plasterboard is usually a fire barrier, if penetrated by by non fire rated lights its a breach of regulations and the client should be told it's illegal and potentially dangerous, only one way to code that, however if the structure above the ceiling is concrete then that would act as a fire break and its not a danger to the occupants above, as long as any penetrations through the floor have been fire stopped, but you can't know that, you need to establish what is above the false ceiling or/and just issue an "Unsatisfactory" EICR.

 

[telectrix]

do a EIC for all the rest of the work you have done. the new non-fore rated downlights were put in after by unknown persons.. honest my lord.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Additionally your client may be asking you to do illegal and potentially dangerous works, be very careful.

 

[westward10]

The suspended ceiling is not likely to be a fire barrier the upper ceiling will be so if they are being fitted to the suspended ceiling so should be fine.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The suspended ceiling is not likely to be a fire barrier the upper ceiling will be so if they are being fitted to the suspended ceiling so should be fine.

But only if the upper ceiling is fire rated, the OP has already said he does not know the construction of it.

 

[westward10]

But only if the upper ceiling is fire rated, the OP has already said he does not know the construction of it.

But the suspended ceiling will not be so it makes no difference what he installs to the suspended ceiling.
Maybe I am misreading this but I am assuming the suspended ceiling is a grid tiled ceiling.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Double plasterboarding is an excepted method of fire rating, why else would that suspended ceiling be double boarded?

 

[westward10]

Double plasterboarding is an excepted method of fire rating, why else would that suspended ceiling be double boarded?

I am assuming this to be a grid ceiling. For this type of ceiling to be fire rated it must be constructed and certified as such, they are rare and expensive. These ceilings are normally for aesthetics and the upper ceiling is fire rated.
@intrelec is this a grid ceiling.

 

[MJPD29]

But the suspended ceiling will not be so it makes no difference what he installs to the suspended ceiling.
Maybe I am misreading this but I am assuming the suspended ceiling is a grid tiled ceiling.

I think he might mean a plasterboard ceiling by suspended ceiling

 

[Mike Johnson]

Double boarding of structural steelwork and pipework penetrations through floors it is an excepted method of fire rating, this type of construction is not certified just noted as being a fire barrier on drawings and in the Health and Safety File.

 

[westward10]

Double boarding of structural steelwork and pipework penetrations through floors it is an excepted method of fire rating, this type of construction is not certified just noted as being a fire barrier on drawings and in the Health and Safety File.

You don't drop two tiles into a suspended ceiling to make it fire rated. Fire rated tiles are classed A1 to F depending on their rating with F being the worst. The ceiling must also being specifically designed and tested, fitting these tiles do not make it fire rated.

 

[LukeD]

Sounds like you are been held to ransom. If its only a few hundred. Bin the job and walk out . I never ever let customers think they have my balls when they want "iffy " work carried out

 

[polaroid]

Looks like a case of poor terminology regarding the suspended ceiling as this usually means metal frames with drop in tiles rather than plasterboard. He probably just means a plasterboard cieiling with a void above as he mentions plasterboard... unless... some idiot has plasterboarded over a suspended ceiling ?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Who said anything about tiles? From the start it's been metal framed double skin plasterboard, we need input from the OP to clarify how the ceiling is constructed at the moment we are just surmising.

 

[polaroid]

Who said anything about tiles? From the start it's been metal framed double skin plasterboard, we need input from the OP to clarify how the ceiling is constructed at the moment we are just surmising.

Because he specifically mentioned suspended ceiling - which uses tiles.

 

[Mike Johnson]

He also mentioned double skin plaster board so some confusion on the ceiling construction I feel, perhaps the OP can clarify?

 

[loz2754]

A suspended ceiling may be constructed using metal grid and drop in tiles.
Or it can equally be a timber or metal framed dropped ceiling boarded with plasterboard.
It's a suspended ceiling either way.
Just because we have got used to thinking of a suspended ceiling as the grid and tiles type, doesn't mean there are not other types.

The OP clearly states that it's a suspended ceiling with a double layer of plasterboard. In which case, it may or may not be designated as a fire barrier. The architect/designer should be able to confirm.

 

[westward10]

Seems like we will never know.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Interesting discussion though of what the different perceptions of what a description by a third party can mean to anyone reading it, good input by all.

 

[intrelec]

Thanks for the input guys. It is double plasterboard fixed to a metal frame (no grid tiles) which I'm aware is usually done to offer fire protection hence mentioning it. There is about a 400mm void to above but don't know what was above it. The lights were previously installed but a couple were moved so new holes cut in the ceiling.
In theory it could be concrete above so that would be ok I guess, but I can get the builder to clarify.

 

[Mike Johnson]

If the internal (fire rated?) partitions do not penetrate the ceiling then the fire rating could be to prevent the spread of flame above the ceiling from one room to another, irrespective of the construction above.