Second National Lockdown...

[Midwest]

Having read around the subject quite alot over recent months... I'd suggest that the general consensus is that this virus will be with us for a very long time... many many years at best, but probably forever. We just need to learn to live with it.

Living with it will involve people dying earlier than they might have done before it came along... as has already been seen.

If we want to prevent anybody dying prematurely from this virus, we need to hermetically seal each individual into a plastic cocoon and provide sterilised food via an air-sealed trap.

If we really really want to do things to lessen the risk of people dying prematurely we could start by not pumping people full of antibiotics the minute they get into hospital or have a sniffle.

Just saying...

That sort of opinion, is something I can't agree with.

Even now, vulnerable people have access to an annual flu vaccination. I've read though that some 7000 people die annually from complications from flu. In a bad year it can be as much as 20,000.

I read the figures of fatality for Covid is (depending on which statistics you believe) is between 38,000 and over 50,000 (England & Wales). Thats with all the preventative measures taken, thus far. And the year is not over yet.

If your suggesting, just letting it run riot unchecked, I suggest you do some more research. If you research figures for the Spanish Flu 1918/19 for example, it was 228,000. There are other such examples.

Its ok to say, just lets live with it, as long as your not one of those people(s) affected by it.

Sorry thats a shocking opinion, if thats what your suggesting.

 

[UNG]

I have a suspicion that long term (a few more years yet) the approach that Sweden took might have been the right one.

It seems that Sweden is being lauded as the way to handle the virus while it might work for them with a population density of 25 people / Sq Km when compared with the UK's population density of 275 people / Sq Km it is not really surprising that we are finding it more difficult to control the virus spread with 11 times more people per Sq Km.

I wonder how the virus spread looks when compared to the density of the population in other countries that are reportedly doing better than the UK

 

[Zerax]

It seems that Sweden is being lauded as the way to handle the virus while it might work for them with a population density of 25 people / Sq Km when compared with the UK's population density of 275 people / Sq Km it is not really surprising that we are finding it more difficult to control the virus spread with 11 times more people per Sq Km.

I wonder how the virus spread looks when compared to the density of the population in other countries that are reportedly doing better than the UK

You're analysis assumes that the population is evenly spread across every square km... this is of course not the case. The major cities in Sweden such as Stockholm, Gothenburg, Malmo etc. will have a very high density, whilst vast swathes of the north will be uninhabited.

However, that's just a correction to your point.

The reason why we won't know, for many years, if Sweden's approach was the right one... is that there are many facets to how you measure it. Destroying a countries economy will undoubtable cause many deaths, as will removing someone's livelihood etc. etc. We would need to take a 'on balance' type view... weighing up a wide and varied 'scorecard' of measures, many of which we don't even know about yet !

 

[7029 dave]

I have mixed feelings, because to friends have died, two were in hospital for months and one that survived will never be the same again slight brain damage.
Its a bloody mess.

 

[OnlQQker]

Nothing much to say, so I'll just add the background music to this thread!

View: https://youtu.be/zxCXqC8YbOI

 

[UNG]

You're analysis assumes that the population is evenly spread across every square km... this is of course not the case. The major cities in Sweden such as Stockholm, Gothenburg, Malmo etc. will have a very high density, whilst vast swathes of the north will be uninhabited.

However, that's just a correction to your point.

The reason why we won't know, for many years, if Sweden's approach was the right one... is that there are many facets to how you measure it. Destroying a countries economy will undoubtable cause many deaths, as will removing someone's livelihood etc. etc. We would need to take a 'on balance' type view... weighing up a wide and varied 'scorecard' of measures, many of which we don't even know about yet !

Not sure why you feel the need to correct a point where I was only using those numbers to highlight the population disparity

But to add context to your point one London borough has a population density just shy of 3 times the population density of Stockholm.
The population of Sweden is less than one sixth of the UK's population so it makes it really difficult to make meaningful comparisons as to how they have handled and how the UK have handled it

 

[Dustydazzler]

A few new rules introduced today but nothing out the ordinary

pubs close at 2200, masks for retail / hospitality staff and no Indoor team Games over 6 people

 

[DPG]

Seems mostly sensible advice. Let's hope people stick to it.

 

[pirate]

Where I am currently, in Spain, everybody wears a mask, in the street, in shops, some shops won't permit entry without a mask, and Lidl will give you a mask if you have forgotten yours.
No smoking in bars or restaurants, even in the terraces outside, nor in the street. In the restaurants, the waiting staff wear masks at all times, and most customeres put their masks on between courses. Bars and restaurants have to limit the number of customers to 50% of normal capacity, and in the schools the children wear masks in lessons and in the street. Nobody seems to object to these restrictions, and as the holiday trade has been disastrous for many businesses, those that remain open are very careful to adhere to the regs. or esle the Guardia Civil will shut them down and impose heavy fines. It seems to be working, but how effective the regs are will only be measured in time. The incidence here, as opposed to the big cities like Madrid and Barcelona, is very low. I believe the regs are working. The beach is off-limits after 9pm to prevent "raves" and everyone seems to accept this now. Back in Scotland, I can still go to the pub and meet strangers, but i can't visit my daughter...strange times.

 

[Midwest]

I think that when the restrictions can be rescinded, those pub & club opening hours should be kept!

Keeping places open to 2-5am is just ridiculous. Its only pee heads who wanna drink to those hours anyway. They can't be trusted to behave themselves. Cost us a fortune in policing and NHS bills. If they feel the need to stay open that late, their rates should go up to reflect the cost to the tax payer.

 

[Zerax]

But to add context to your point one London borough has a population density just shy of 3 times the population density of Stockholm.
The population of Sweden is less than one sixth of the UK's population so it makes it really difficult to make meaningful comparisons as to how they have handled and how the UK have handled it

Agreed... population density is largely a red herring... that was the point I was making. It's far more to do with how people live and socialise that pure statistical population densities.

I found it intriguing that the media tried to make out that there was some sort of racism going on due to proportionally more BAME people contracting the virus. No mention was made of the simple fact that they tend to be far more social than native brits...

 

[DPG]

Agreed... population density is largely a red herring... that was the point I was making. It's far more to do with how people live and socialise that pure statistical population densities.

I found it intriguing that the media tried to make out that there was some sort of racism going on due to proportionally more BAME people contracting the virus. No mention was made of the simple fact that they tend to be far more social than native brits...

Sadly it seems to be the current trend to look for racism.

 

[littlespark]

I just watched Boris’s announcement on TV... Channel 4 to be exact... Then started to watch Great British Bake Off which started with new host Matt Lucas take the mick out of Boris doing a TV announcement. “Save Loaves!”

The fact that it followed the real Boris made it 10 times funnier

 

[GBDamo]

Sadly it seems to be the current trend to look for racism.

Ooh , miss he's being a bigoted, miss, tell him..

 

[Maji236]

From what I've been told from doctors, it may have more to do with amount of viral load you get that determines how sick a person gets. ie: The more exposure; the sicker or worse symptoms will be. Granted, health & age plays a bit of a part in too, to be sure. But masks in public & social distance seems the best solution, in general. And least invasive.
It has also been suggested, that in places like NYC or LA, etc., a kind of community (hurd) immunity may have been reached. Although businesses, (in NY at least) have been enforcing mask mandate. Even the guys who think they're 'tough guys' on the job site, are wearing masks.

My two cents from this side of the pond. Hopefully an innoculation may be available soon.

 

[littlespark]

Students are not the problem....
Oh, apparently they are .... all of them! So what does Nicola sturgeon do? Ban all of them from travelling home.

my daughter in Aberdeen had a bus ticket bought from before this happened. £36 to Edinburgh and we would pick her up. Coming down for my parents 50th wedding anniversary meal. The pub were being really good organising it.
She’s now can’t come... so she got her ticket refunded.... cost her a tenner to cancel! Why?

this new round of restrictions is confusing again. Having certain groups of people exempt just gives a “they can do it, why can’t I” attitude.

 

[Zerax]

So what does Nicola sturgeon do?

The Sturgeon is simply playing politics... like issuing her announcements 15 mins before Boris or slightly amending Boris' rules so that she can say that's she's gone one better... whilst all the time, the Scottish economy crumbles, Scottish education gets worse etc. etc.

 

[telectrix]

The Sturgeon is simply playing politics... like issuing her announcements 15 mins before Boris or slightly amending Boris' rules so that she can say that's she's gone one better... whilst all the time, the Scottish economy crumbles, Scottish education gets worse etc. etc.

scottish education is fine. all scots know that 2 fingers of single malt is a double measure. what more do they need? .

 

[littlespark]

Right through this, sturgeon has said and done anything to go against the uk govt. it would have been better for the 4 nations to agree to either compromise, or go with the worse case scenario rather than 4 different rules for 4 govts. One set of guidelines for everybody.
I’m on the Border. We don’t know which rules to go by depending which side of the line we are in.
alcohol is cheaper on the English side.