What should I do in this situation of poor and incorrect wiring?

[SeanA]

A friend of mine is having some building work done by some incompetent tradespeople and the wiring in their bathroom was done by a plumber who is not a qualified electrician my friend was having problems so I agreed to have a look at it (I am not a qualified electrician I should point out).

The first thing I noticed was that the plumber had attached a shaver socket and a towel rail to the lighting circuit but not put that on the consumer unit isolator for the lighting circuit. I then found that the shaver socket was only being held in by one screw and was loose. Also the earth in the light switch on the wall outside the bathroom was not connected inside the switch.

My friend was also having problems with lights further on in the circuit and I found out that the neutral had come loose as it was attached to the circuit using a terminal block connector. I have replaced the terminal block with a junction box as I personally don't like terminal blocks especially for work intended to be permanent. The earth was also not properly connected as well.

While fitting the junction box to replace the terminal blocks I noticed that the wiring is using incorrect colours for example there is several instances of brown and red neutral wires with no sleeving, there was also a blue live wire. None of the wiring or junction boxes have been fastened to the rafters and an excessive amount of wiring has been used so its become tangled.

I have spoken to the electrician for the project who has mentioned that they put in a quote to do the bathroom electrics but the person overseeing the project declined it and choose to have it done by the plumber so the electric work in the bathroom has not been certified and signed off, my friend wasn't aware of this. The electrician has offered to certify it for a fee however given how bad it is I don't think the electrician would be able to certify it without major changes.

Given the state of the electrics and the incorrect wiring I have suggested the best cause of action is for my friend to get a new electrician in and replace it all and maybe report the plumber and the person overseeing the project to trading standards. What would you say the best course of action is?

 

[Baddegg]

I’d love to hear that conversation between homeowner and insurance company - “you’ve installed down lights - and you’re not qualified - and you’ve not tested them - and then they’ve caught fire and burned your roof - yes, that’s no problem at all, fully covered by your buildings policy”.

Noooooo! I didn’t do it I let the plumber do it!

 

[The Ghost]

How many customers are even aware of the need for testing & certification

I must say a lot more people want certification nowadays and are aware of the need to have it. I would say at least 60% of domestic customers ask for it, and certainly all commercial require it.

 

[The Ghost]

This forum is becoming more & more unpleasant every time I visit it!!!

That may well be because of the content you are posting it does seem more unpleasant when you visit and contribute such statements so I can agree with you that far

 

[davesparks]

only last week a householder lost their roof due to down lighters fitted by the house owner caught fire . The insurance is paying up and relocated them whilst the roof is being replaced.

Please tell us that they are being prosecuted for putting their family and the firefighters lives at risk?

 

[Adrian1958]

Please tell us that they are being prosecuted for putting their family and the firefighters lives at risk?

I doubt it Davesparks, when i was afire fighter i didnt think much about it , turned up , done what i was told to do and went back to the station and back to work.
Now as a Redcross volunteer for the Fire and emergency service support, i get more involved with sign posting to other areas, its amazing what insurance companies will pay up on and equally amazing what they dont.
Called out this morning at 04.10, house flooded due to home owner changed the main stop cock over the weekend , i just spoke to the insurance lost adjusters , they have already oked the claim, the home owner is not a plumber, so technically not qualified.
Its a case by case situation, good lawyers , smart lost adjusters etc etc.

 

[Markyd]

What sort of ENGLISH does this builder speak

 

[Intoelectrics]

Please tell us that they are being prosecuted for putting their family and the firefighters lives at risk?

And for me this is the crux of it. Though any loss is devastating, losing a life or serious life changing injury is far more devastating than any material loss. Dodgy tradespeople and no nothing d.i.y'ers don't appreciate the possible implications of their actions.

For example, I'm multi skilled but I'm not gas qualified, so even though I could install a gas boiler to a decent standard, I wouldn't do so. I would employ the services of a good experienced gas engineer. I wouldn't put lives at risk, regardless of how confident I was that the boiler was installed correctly. I haven't the qualifications or the knowledge to satisfactory test the boiler to ensure it is 100% safe to use.
Electrical installs should be treated with the same respect, for the same reasons - people's lives could be put at risk.

 

[SeanA]

The registered electrician for the project came round to finish off some other jobs, it was mentioned to him the bad electrics and he said its not worth worrying about.

After he finished the work on another part of the house I inspected the electricians work (although didn't do anything to it) and if anything the electricians work was done worse and more dangerous than the plumber's electrical work.

 

[Markyd]

Get someone out before someone gets hurt.......call the police even....anything

 

[Intoelectrics]

The registered electrician for the project came round to finish off some other jobs, it was mentioned to him the bad electrics and he said its not worth worrying about.

After he finished the work on another part of the house I inspected the electricians work (although didn't do anything to it) and if anything the electricians work was done worse and more dangerous than the plumber's electrical work.

I wonder if he's prepared to stand up in court and say this (my bold) when somebody gets injured or worse.

 

[Charlie_]

Hopefully his plumbing is as bad as his electrics..

 

[James]

Hopefully his plumbing is as bad as his electrics..

are you hoping a leak will put out a fire?

 

[Charlie_]

are you hoping a leak will put out a fire?

Haha Full marks!
Great minds think alike

 

[MG201]

Hopefully his plumbing is as bad as his electrics..

That's the funny thing as at least bad plumbing is discovered when they find water drains or pooling ,, but electrical problems can go undiscovered untill it causes damage that is way more than a stain or puddle

 

[SeanA]

The plumbing work is poor as well, there is a lot of damp as well.

 

[johnduffell]

the whole point of insurance is pay up if something bad happens, ours I phoned and they said they'll pay up on that if I am painting and drop a pot of paint on the carpet. Also there are weird anomalies like if you don't keep the roof in a good state and it leaks, they insuarance won't replace the roof, but if your record collection and carpets are ruined by the water influx, they will replace those.
Regarding building regs, the part P says the electrics must be safe against electric shock and fire, and clearly if the roof burnt down that doesn't comply with building regs regardless of notification requirements. Nothing about certification or BS7671 although that's one route to compliance and evidencing that compliant state. However building regs don't help you when you have no roof. The insurance will! Some insurance has specific "conditions" which must be complied with, but domestic insurance wouldn't have a condition that all electrical work must be notified and inspected, that's just not costing insurance companies enough for them to even care!

 

[Zerax]

...I'm multi skilled but I'm not gas qualified, so even though I could install a gas boiler to a decent standard, I wouldn't do so. I would employ the services of a good experienced gas engineer. I wouldn't put lives at risk, regardless of how confident I was that the boiler was installed correctly. I haven't the qualifications or the knowledge to satisfactory test the boiler to ensure it is 100% safe to use...

Personally, I don't care how many qualifications and years of experience that someone has... unless I know him and know the standard that he works to etc. he's going nowhere near my gas boiler !

I've come across far too many 'experienced gas engineers' over the years who do some very shoddy work.

 

[richy3333]

Just because he’s a plumber doesn’t necessarily mean he isn’t a competent electrician. If his wiring is dodgy .... are you sure he’s actually competent plumber and not just an all round bodger?

The definition of a plumber is a failed electrician so I doubt the plumbers competent at electrics

 

[oracle]

Not the best advice saying that insurance will be void. As a retired RDS fire fighter and now as a volunteer fire support worker , i see many electrical fires , only last week a householder lost their roof due to down lighters fitted by the house owner caught fire . The insurance is paying up and relocated them whilst the roof is being replaced.

Insurance is a big world and best left to advisers and lost assessors to fight out.

View attachment 49596

There is a special place for the insurance loss assessors Her Inside has endured. She accidentally dropped her phone into the canal crossing the lock and claimed the loss. She was told that it counted as Water Damage and they would cover it if she sent it to them. She told them it was under 20 feet of dirty water but they didn’t want to know.

 

[Adrian1958]

There is a special place for the insurance loss assessors Her Inside has endured. She accidentally dropped her phone into the canal crossing the lock and claimed the loss. She was told that it counted as Water Damage and they would cover it if she sent it to them. She told them it was under 20 feet of dirty water but they didn’t want to know.

Claim it as lost , most house insurances cover phones , bikes etc. May also be worth checking your contract as you maybe paying for insurance without knowing it !